Really Deep THoughts #368

[Really Deep Thoughts <rdtout@oasis.novia.net>]

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Date Stamp:                  Digest #368                      Volume: 01
Fri Apr 11 21:54:34 CDT 1997


CONTENTS

bootleg snobbery
oops, I forgot...
Music note: Soundgarden breaks up
Just saying hi to keep my name in the headlines...
chickens and apocalyptic comets
Really Deep Thoughts #367
leonard cohen tribute album
The Collectibles Book
drawing flies
about the cult thing...
food and other artforms
BfP weak?
come out, come out, wherever you are...
tori (a question and a request)and some thoughts on Pele
a rare show of emotion

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:52:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jennifer Crispin <jcrispin@jinx.sckans.edu>
Subject: bootleg snobbery


*anyways, i kept that brief. i noticed Greensleeves poking fun at those
*unfortunate ones who had less bootlegs than she did. nice there,
*Greensleeves. did you let out the "hah-ha!" laugh like the little bully
*from the Simpsons? :)

Oh no no no! I swear I wasn't poking fun of them for their lack of 
bootlegs!  I have like 3, so it isn't as if I can be a bootleg snob!  
Oh don't think I am awful!  :(  I just found it a nice way to retort 
to some boys whose basic mentality was "well, I love Tori so much I 
have 13 CDs.  How many do *you* have?"  Ugh.  Repulsive.  I have no 
money.  Which is why I have 6 Tori CDs and only the Tori bootlegs my 
sister feels merciful enough to copy for me.  :(  I am sorry!

I am a nice person I swear I am!

Blessed be
Greensleeves

PS  Sarat, the rdt tarot idea is the best one I have ever heard in my 
whole entire life!  :)

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 00:54:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jennifer Crispin <jcrispin@jinx.sckans.edu>
Subject: oops, I forgot...

To tell Marci that I hope she is feeling better!

And to mention that I *finally* have my very own web page.  And you 
all need to send me your web page addresses so that I can put your 
links on my page.  I already have a few, but not many...

Oh, and if you are curious, the address of my page is
http://www.sckans.edu/~jcrispin/home.html
not very exciting yet, I still have tons of pictures to load and 
things to add, it is just in a skeleton form right now...

Thanks!

Blessed be
Greensleeves

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Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 22:32:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: William Affleck-Asch <feminist@eskimo.com>
Subject: Music note: Soundgarden breaks up


Yup, it's official, one of my fave local bands (after Sky Cries Mary and
Diamond Fist Werny) is breaking up.  Chris Cornell announced it, and the
End 107.7 did an interview with his mum.

Just thought I'd drop a note before heading off to visit relatives who
have all moved to Santa Barbara.

William Affleck-Asch  |  The above is my personal opinion only and does not
Seattle               |  necessarily reflect the opinions of any of the
feminist@eskimo.com   |  many organizations I belong to or represent. :-)
http://www.eskimo.com/~feminist/
where I have a music.html and toriamos.html page ...

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From: GrecianUrn@aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 05:18:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Just saying hi to keep my name in the headlines...

Got nothing to say, really.

MTV is showing an ad with Tori babbling on about food and spices.

The Saint is a really good movie, half love story and half action/adventure,
unlike the all-action/adventure impression you get from the promos.

I'm going to Taos, N.M., in a month.  Maybe I'll come across Tori at the
Dairy Queen or something.

Hi to Angela M. and Debbie H. and Lisa V., if they're still out there.

Integration is a good thing.

Peace-Love-Cunnilingus,

Renaissance

~@~@~@~@~

The Little Zen Calendar:  Sunday, April 6th...

Your prayer should be, "Break the legs
of what I want to happen.  Humiliate
my desire.  Eat me like candy.
It's spring, and finally I have no will."

-Rumi

~@~@~@~

And Christ said, "Eat me."

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From: violet@slip.net
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 06:40:42 -0700
Subject: chickens and apocalyptic comets

Mr St John wrote:
>Violet--no chicken?! I have drastically reduced my intake of
>animals in my diet, but I don't know if I can cut down my inhalation of
>chicken treats. I admire your ability!

Well, this is a VERY new thing for me.  Until just last week, I still ate
chicken and fish.  But then I happened to run across an "art book" called
"Dead Meat," and I drastically changed my mind . . . on the chicken part,
anyway.  I do still eat fish.  If you want to stop eating meat and you ever
get a chance to look for this book, do.  I can pretty much guarantee you
won't be able to eat ANY meat ever again.  A little background on it is
that it is the diary and sketchbook of a woman who travelled around the
country going from slaughterhouse to dairy to feedlot and recording what
she saw.  It is the single most horrifying thing I've ever seen (and
remember, I have several books of photos of dead people, so when I speak of
horrifying, I know what I'm talking about).  Gruesome cannot begin to
describe it.  Just to make my full opinion on the subject clear here, I
don't want anyone to think I condemn people who eat meat.  I don't so much
have something against the eating of meat as I am upset and sickened by the
way the animals are treated to get it, and I truly believe that people are
able to continue buying animal products only because they don't realise
what's going on behind the scenes.  There is just no excuse for the extreme
cruelty, so as an animal lover, my conscience won't let me be a party to it
anymore.  It's going to be hard.  I really do love chicken.  But it got
easier over time when I gave up red meat, so it'll get easier with this,
too.

But I think we've had the meat debate here before, and I don't really mean
to open that up again.  I'm just still so affected by what I saw and
learned is all.  I've actually had a lot of trouble living with it ever
since -- a lot of dreams of blood and death and all.

Now I just have to gather the strength to cut out the dairy products, and
that will be extraordinarily hard.  I'm hoping I can find a store locally
that uses the products of a "humane" dairy.  That might not be so hard here
in the Berkeley area.

I'm thinking here, "Say something chipper now," but I can't come up with
much of anything at the moment.  Oh, but the comet is still at its peak
until Friday, so go out and look at it.  Kim and I have been watching it
every night, and on Thursday we're heading up to the hills to see it in
darker territory {did somebody say Tori?].  I know Kim is secretly hoping
to see the UFO.  He keeps telling people that we'd better enjoy life while
we can, because the end is near.  I'm thinking it is too, if he doesn't
quit with the damn UFO jokes. ;)  But I HAVE been having another bout of
apocalyptic dreams lately (I seem to go through this every so often).  The
most frustrating thing about them is that I never know if they're just
innocent little nightmares or if I should really be calling the New York
Times or Newsweek or something.  Then again, I don't suppose announcing it
would do any good, so what am I worrying for? ;)

Regarding the whole Heaven's Gate tragedy, since I was sort of speaking of
it in a roundabout way, anyhow . . .  I admit I chimed in a little myself
with a couple of "thinning out the herd" and "survival of the fittest"
comments around my family, but actually, whatever people choose to believe
of their own free will is completely up to them.  Totally putting aside how
I -- or anyone I know -- felt about the whole thing, I thought the very
saddest aspect of all was when I read that the group made the final
decision that "now is the time to leave this planet" because when they put
their beliefs up on the Web they received so many hostile and derisive
comments from people via e-mail.  Now, Kim's said that anyone who doesn't
know enough to expect to get ragged online (especially when they preach
such extreme ideology) probably shouldn't be here in the first place; and
yes, that IS a reality of being online.  But still, to think that the
reason they finally made up their minds was because the nastiness of people
in general pushed them over the edge just breaks my heart.  Sort of makes
me wonder what the hell I'm still doing here myself sometimes.  I heard
comments along the lines of "even if they were pushed they certainly didn't
have far to fall," but still, it's extremely sad that thoughtless people
were so instrumental in bringing the plan to fruition.

Well, THAT wasn't the "good note" I was looking to end on, but it's
incredibly late and I have to get to bed.  I promise I'll be more cheerful
another time.  But when all else fails, there's always the sig to fall back
on. ;)

Violet
xoxox

   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   *                                                                 *
   *  And Jesus said, "Hey guys, I can see the house from up here!"  *
   *                                                                 *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:29:41 +0100
From: Ken Tough <ken@objectech.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Really Deep Thoughts #367

>From: harold.williams@aalas.org (Harold Williams)

>I could go on, but I won't. You get the idea. And besides, I think Tori
>could work a stage with a microphone stand. She'd be excellent.
                           or an accordian.  (only 67% joking)

>But who would her band be?
>Caton on guitar, of course...and how about Matt Sorum on drums? He did some
>of the work on YKTR, and I believe Axl put him out of Guns 'n Roses a while
>back. So he's free...and hell, since we're dreamin', how about Johnette
>Napolitano on bass and backing vocals?

Ray Cooper on percussion, Nigel Eaton on Hurdygurdy, and the 
    South London Gospel Choir.

>From: queenpie@ix.netcom.com (anna sunshine ison)
>Subject: why the pet store is even cooler than you think

>apparently though, i look even Younger with my green hair (which is
>rapidly rapidly fading even though we put So much in. does anyone
>know why? i'm using gentle wash/color treated shampoo. but maybe
>my hair just isn't used to the dye? it makes me very sad though. 

It's the sun (a killer for green dye).  
Two options:  Be a night person, or wear a hat.
-- 
Ken Tough            
ken@objectech.co.uk  

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:08:59 -0700
From: tesserae <tess@deltanet.com>
Subject: leonard cohen tribute album

I just thought I'd throw in my $0.02.

Steve the Sweet Fat Man wrote:
>Then,there's her awesome cover of "Famous Blue Raincoat", which is great
>to >have on this tape because now I can unload that Leonard Cohen tribute
>thing >which is otherwise uniformly crapola.

To which I must respond by saying that I enjoy that entire album very much.
While the artists' styles vary tremendously, Cohen's striking lyrics and
musical genius shines through in each track. The fact that so many
different artists *can* play his music is a testimony to the wonder of it,
as well.

So, Steve ... maybe think about giving it another try? : )

of course, merely my opinion,
tesserae

------
"Yet this year, yanking off all past years,
I took the bait, and was pulled upward, upward,
into the sky and was held by the sun--
the quick wonder of its yellow lap--
and became a woman who learned her own skin
and dug into her soul and found it full ...."
(The Break Away: Anne Sexton)

tess@deltanet.com * tesserae@asarian.org
http://users.deltanet.com/~tess/


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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:14:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Antigone <GR95289771@WESLEY.IT.EMERSON.EDU>
Subject: The Collectibles Book

So, thanks to whoever posted that this book was on sale at Tower, I bought
the collectibles book.  (How's THAT for a sentence from an English major?
I just handed in my thesis - I'm brain dead...)  ANYWAY in the Little Earthquakes
section, it mentions that early versions of LE were mistakenly marked as promo
copies and that they have black and white pictures, but that later versions
had color.  Mine isn't marked promo, but the pictures in the booklet are in
black and white - what about everyone elses?  I'm curious.

and this book is a must have for everyone - but its overwhelming, the amount
of stuff you can own related to Tori.  Eep.  And did you know there are TWO
songs tori has recorded that none of us have?  (I assume..) The Michael
Stipe duet AND "Learning to Fly" from her very very first demo for LE.  Or
was it "Learn to Fly"...I forget...ANYWAY I wonder if THAT will ever surface.

Last thing - I was on AOL last night and talked to someone with the screen
name "Tori Amos."  No, i really doubt it was her.  But then someone ELSE
told me THEY thought they had encountered Tori online.  This bothers me -
that there are people who are pretending to be Tori and who are convincing
others that they are Tori herself.  I do believe um...who was it? that
said they may have found her online one night - that sounded VERYYY convincing.
I almost hope Tori never goes online again, though, so we all can stop the
guessing and know for sure who is an impostor.  (Though I kept thinking..
well...she's taking time off...maybe she's bored...)

Love to all the faeries
Marla Antigone

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:35:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jorge Fernandez <jferna03@fiu.edu>
Subject: drawing flies


i woke up this morning and probably the greatest band in music today was
taken away from me.

i don't know if there's anyone out there who makes music the way Chris
Cornell, Kim Thayil, Matt Cameron, and Ben Sheppard did. Soundgarden made
music that was above all other on every level, whether it was
soungwriting, lyrics, arrangements, influences. every album they've
released is a just a classic piece of work in it's own right, even if
their last four albums, Louder Than Love, Badmotorfinger, Superunknown,
and Down On The Upside, were so radically different, they were all
excellent in their own right. i don't think there's any band in music
today capable of releasing three albums back to back such as the loud and
raw Badmotorfinger, the eclectic Superunknown, and the heavy, psychadelic
Down On The Upside. especially with the latter, every riff, every solo,
every word Soundgarden recorded blew me away. i'm going to miss these guys
very badly. i don't think there's anyone out there who could pick up the
slack right now for them. 

jorge

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:43:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jorge Fernandez <jferna03@fiu.edu>
Subject: about the cult thing...


..i honestly think we should call a nice little mercy killing to the
thread already. what's happening is we have a whole bunch of people
ignoring what academicians and such say and come up with what they think
the word "cult" should represent. it's kinda funny to listen to, since i
never knew the meaning of a word was negotiable, but it's sad because i've
read so many people on this list confirm every negative stigma that's been
unfairly attached to the word. when you speak of "mind control" and the
such being a characteristic of the word, it's what you're doing. i just
think by everybody trying to offer their own little definition, this
thread is losing it.

so therefore i'll say one more thing (god, y'all must hate me...), Doug
wrote about Christiantiy and Protestantism not using things such as
brainwashing and mind control. i gotta say, in a way, i can't disagree
with you. i can't offer any evidence myself to say that as an institution
they do. but here's what i think sucks: that parents and grandparents
everywhere instill fear in their children to the point that they grow up
to be adults who believe on the basis of fear and have never really looked
to see if they really do agree with they've been taught. i've always
thought religion to make sense to me in order for me to believe. until
now, for the most part, it hasn't. i just think i'm a closet Unitarian.

Rynn, rock on. this world needs a hell of a lot of more free thinkers. i'd
buy you a big-ass margarita right now, even though i'd be contributing to
the deliquency of a minor. 



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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:27:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "J. Osebold" <johnozzy@u.washington.edu>
Subject: food and other artforms

First, as for Tori's best album, apples and oranges, y'know? I can't
compare, but I can't imAgine A better succession of albums for the
red-haired dancing girl.
	Since I'm still on food, I highly recommend to all of you to
either make or find a place that makes cajun chicken pasta. Mmmmm! That
and mead (fermented honey-wine) make for an extraordinary experience. 
	Jorge was talking about Tori's ultimate band for touring, so I'll
add my 2 cents ('cause history owes me...oh, not much, I guess): On
harpsichord when Tori isn't playing, Antonio Vivaldi; on any woodwinds
involved, Davy Spilane from the Riverdance band; Trent for decoration and
visuals; everyone on rdt as background props (we'll make it up as we go);
any drums covered by Carter Beauford (Dave Matthews Band); nervous
laughter by Ani; Indigo Girls for backup vocals; Zach de la Rocha for
between-song dialect; and God just being there to look cool.

cajun chicken pasta and mead,
Mr St John

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:57:04 -0500 (CDT)
From: Wendell Gee <ssoleim@acc.jc.edu>
Subject: BfP weak?

This is the first time I've posted.
As far as BfP being a weaker album than the rest, I think it is just a 
matter of musical evolution, not necessarily better nor worse, just the 
change an artist needs to go through to stay relavent to themselves and 
their fans. Look at U2 for example, listen to War, then listen to Pop, or 
any of their albums for that matter and you'll see they went a long way 
in every album they released. That's what I believe Tori is doing.
Bye

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Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 23:40:41 -0700
From: Beth Winegarner <bethw@sonic.net>
Subject: come out, come out, wherever you are...

Hi all. First off I hope you all weren't totally put off by my numbers post
in the last RDT, I just thought it might be fun. Anyway, this time I think
I'm just gonna go through some replies...

Marci: Yeeks. I'm glad you caught the blood sugar before it did you in! 

Rynn: I just have to say that you are one badass babe. I'm sorry about the
loss of that amazing teacher... It seems like every school I went to, there
was one amazing teacher and something bad always happened -- some kind of
suit related to them getting "too friendly" (read: sexual) with a student,
which in many cases was simple human friendliness getting in the way; it was
more along the lines of other teachers felt threatened by that one's
popularity and found ways to get them fired... I just wonder sometimes why
such bad things have to happen to good people. 

You also said:
> I'm getting confirmed in Christianism next week...Anyone willing 
>to send me any gifts? irish talisman necklaces and talisman necklaces,
rings in 
>general...or  just some cool poetry e-mailed to me....

Maybe I could dig something up for ya. :) Where should we send such things? 

And, Rynn, I just have to say I was happy you spelled my name right in
#366... you'd be amazed how many people get it wrong. 

On a random note about "which of Tori's albums is best" or whatever, I work
at a music store and I tend to like to play our used Tori stuff on the
stereo system in the store, in part for my own mental health (working in a
mall sucks) and in part because it makes people so happy... they hear
Crucify for instance and start singing along or dancing slightly in the
aisles. And every time I play her, someone buys the CD right out of the
stereo (they're usually used copies)! I sold the Crucify single -- I hadn't
even gotten so far as "Winter" -- along with a copy of BfP one day; I got
halfway through Pink before someone else bought that, and just yesterday a
woman bought LE just as the CD was finishing... It's cool that so many
people love Tori. Her CDs come in frequently, but they go just as quickly... 

Marla wrote:
>And the scariest thing?  My new job is next door to Boston's FAO Schwarz.
>Bye bye paycheck

I can sympathize in my own way... not only do I work in a music store
(temptations galore), but I work next door to a cookie stand in the mall...
the smell of fresh baked cookies all day long! We're moving to a different
spot in the mall tomorrow, though, so it won't be quite so bad.... 

Harold wrote:
>[Eric Rosse], I believe, had a real vision of how
>he wanted Tori to sound...but Tori knows how she wants to sound, and what
>we got with Pele was pure, unadulterated Tori...whereas before she hasd
>been sort of filtered.

That, and I think she was reacting to her sudden freedom and went a bit
hog-wild. I'm not saying she overexerted herself on BfP, but it's like what
happens when you're just going out in the world... you do all the things
your parents spend years telling you not to do. Drugs, sex, bad driving, bad
TV, whatever suits you. And you figure out what to do with yourself. I don't
think Eric had such a restaining force on Tori as all that, but I'll bet
with BfP she was still coming to terms with this idea of being on her own,
artistically. Now she's got a better handle on things and I can't wait to
hear what she does next!

Doug: thanks so much for trusting all of us enough to "come out" here on
RDT. I'm glad you're finally revealing your True Self to the world, and
sharing that person with us. I have been going through a lot of that m'self
-- like Rynn, not with sexuality but with spirituality. I'm ... ah ... well,
pagan doesn't begin to describe it. Many of you might have known that
already. Lately it's been more along the lines of "wake up, there's
something going on and you need to pay attention." So I can't really put
that side of myself on hold anymore. 

Er... did that make ANY Sense? 

Samuel wrote:
>no andrea, i wasn't at the rasputina show. <actualy,
>i'm not even quite entirely sure if i know who they are, i'm fairly sure i've
>heard of them, but i can't remember where or who from>.

Was that the one in San Francisco? I was there, and ... wow, it was one hell
of a show. Melora was in top form, spouting her little riffs about things
like the evils of rollerblades. I was supposed to go say hi to her after the
show but their security people didn't have their act together and I couldn't
even talk to her or anything. Samuel, you probably heard about Rasputina
somewhere on this list... they're a cello band... kinda art-goth-rock. Very
wonderful. One of my favorite favorite new bands. 

Rich: I Know you told us to email you ... but when I went to Ireland I pawed
through every record store I could find, and saw almost nothing that I
couldn't get here. There was one shop in Dublin someplace (or was it Cork?)
that had a couple of boots and the Mick St. Michael book w/the interview CD,
but nothing you couldn't get here for a better price. I'm sorry this isn't
more helpful. I hope you find better pickings than when I went. Have a good
time in Ireland, though -- it's a wonderful place. If you get the chance, go
to Slea head, which is on the very very tip of the peninsula west of Tralee
(sorry, I can't remember the name of it). It's not only gorgeous, but it's
the westernmost point in continental Europe. :)

I had Phish Food ice cream last night... I've never even heard the band but
that ice cream is incredible! Yumyum. 

Beth

np -- "Set the Controls for the Heart of the Sun," Pink Floyd
--
"What's the difference between reality and fiction? Fiction has to make sense."

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 10:53:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Olivia Antsis <oantsi1@tiger.towson.edu>
Subject: tori (a question and a request)and some thoughts on Pele

Hey,

Hi everyone. I am fairly new to the list and I have never posted before. I
really wish that I could give you a little more than that, but right now I
am approaching the climax of this extremely difficult semester and I am
behind with meeting deadlines...you know how it is. Anyway, I was sitting
in French class this morning and all the sudden Tori made her way in to my
head (we were reviewing the chapter on food--so naturally I thought of
Tori). So, a random question. Does anyone know if Tori can speak other
langauges, like perhaps what langauge she took in High School. I was just
curious--
Now, for a request-- I am writing an explanatory essay for one of my
classes on what it is like for a victim of rape to testify in court
against her assailent. The essay must be documented and include quotes and
faces.  I was planning on including a quote of anyone with a personal 
account of what it is like for a victim of sexual assault to testify in
court (how you were treated by the defense, seeing your attacker again,
etc.). If anyone on this list would not mind sharing a little something
about their experience in court, I would really appreciate it. You can
e-mail me privately. It can be a few sentences or a few paragraphs,
whatever you can share would be helpful--thanks.
Pele, being Tori's weakest album--never!
I discovered the Godess in April of 96'--but, trust me it did not take me
long at all to catch up to all of you old EWF. Anyway, oddly enough,
living in N.E. Philly, I have never heard any music by Tori untill "Caught
a lite sneeze" came out on the radio. Nothing prior to that. When I first
heard "Caught a lite sneeze" I was emotionally sucked into my radio. Her
voice was so amazing and haunting I thought. But, that was all I knew
about her. So, I went over to Tower and I flipped through the Tori
section. I picked up Boys For Pele and immediately I was very drawn to  
this women I knew nothing about. Seeing as how it was not on sale at the
time, I decided I would play it safe and buy the single--which included
Graveyard, Toodles Mr. Jim, and That's What I Like. On the first day I had
it, I listened to it constantly. There was just something so magical about
her voice. I was really digging it. So, a week later I was in a used CD
store and I see Under the Pink. At this point I had no idea Little
Earthquakes exsisted. Well, this time I did not hesitate. It took me two
listens to fall in love with the album and a few more to realize that Tori
and her music were unlike anything that I was used to...well, i then got
Boys for Pele and last but not least LE...a crazy order of getting into
Tori. I just wanted to say that Boys was an incredible album and has
definetly made its way to my favorite Tori Album, though it is extremely
hard to say that and mean it when UtP and LE were so extraordinary as
well. All of Tori's girls are different, they come from different places,
they have experienced different things, they carry different baggage, and
some are a little more thick than others but they all are the most amazing
little darlings -- aren't they...honestly, I cannot choose one album above
the rest without feeling guilty.  
Nonetheless, I have to agree with those of you who said that they feel
that Boys is the most yummiest--as in mature and experimental. It was Tori
taking a risk-- not in anyway selling herself short. 
I think that the day Tori is ever dishonest with her music is the day she
grows a penis.  
                   lots of love and Tori,
                             Olivia

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Date: Fri, 11 Apr 1997 15:39:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Jorge Fernandez <jferna03@fiu.edu>
Subject: a rare show of emotion


just wanted to let everyone know that i was accepted yesterday into Barry
University's Graduate Program in Social Work. jorge is now officially
going to grad school! :)

i've worked very VERY hard for two years to get to this point and i'd
never thought i'd get there, but i'm here.

jorge



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