RDTRN Archive - RDT Right Now #949

RDT Right Now #949

From: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 18:14:55 -0800
Subject: RDT Right Now #949
To: "Recipient.List.Suppressed":;;@luis.yourwebhost.com

Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to <rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org> with "unsubscribe" in the body. o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 00 : Issue #949 . o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o . o o . o o O "Thoughts right now... O o What will become of me, o o Become of her, become of we?" o . o o . O O O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O o . o o o Tori Amos, "Thoughts" In this issue: o-o-o-o-o-o-o you go grrl [ Fragments1@aol.com ] not charlie brown... [ "Juan Manuel Torreblanca" <cheefoos ] On the balls of my feet [ "Oliver Foster" <FOGG@nettaxi.com> ] HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!! [ Anna and Tory Mulch <vonmulch@csj.n ] *yuck* [ "John Kwiatkowski" <stickboy0@hotma ] Wrapped around your peeps [ Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.de ] yippee [ Fragments1@aol.com ] Tori's 'presence' on RDT [ "Eric Thelen" <eric@mySpeech.com> ] Re: HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!! [ Kara Bergeman <empresskara@yahoo.co ] the fire with all the strength it ha [ andrea <silent@nwu.edu> ] Torisquaatsi : list out of balance [ David Woodson <otma@chorus.net> ] Re: RDT Right Now #947 [ "Laura Heywood" <laurahey@hotmail.c ] yo yo yo [ Sahara8383@aol.com ] Nice dress. How can I get into it? [ "Succubus Barbie" <delirium1479@hot ] part 1 [ Fragments1@aol.com ] ___________________________________________________________________ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Informa-Tori Informa-Tori Informa-Tori Informa-Tori Informa-Tori ___________________________________________________________________ No report today. ___________________________________________________________________ mark your calendar iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ___________________________________________________________________ Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives: http://www.torithoughts.org -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:16:43 EST From: Fragments1@aol.com To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org, PsyLiLy@aol.com Subject: you go grrl so welcome psylily. after spending 25 and a half hours with you this past weekend, you sure as hell had better keep posting. i don't want to be the only person who knows what the hell cos-slacks are.:-) so. yes. boys and girls. an EWF i know has actually finally joined rdt. it's a very, very happy day. be sure to ask her about he flaming russian bear.... :-) i'm pretty when i lie, -russ p.s.-i'm still putting my "albums you wouldn't want to listen to" list together...but i do agree with jorge-i wouldnt want that gawddamn jewel holiday album anywhere near me. p.p.s.-my imac is STILL broken.:-( p.p.s-doesn't the new concertina kicks some ass?.... -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:16:04 CST From: "Juan Manuel Torreblanca" <cheefooska@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: not charlie brown... I can't believe it, I'm so sad. I dreamed of snoopy then I wake up and find that Charles M. Schultz died. This man created so many characters that remind me of different parts of my childhood (and I don't have many memories of it) I loved the animated Charlie Brown, I always wanted to be like schroeder, he was so cool with his tiny piano and well, the music is great. That was one of the first things I thought about when I first saw the cover of LE. I still have a teddy bear called shroeder. And a little woodstock and a snoopy, well... ... oh, and I heard the American Pie madonna thing and I wanted to throw up ncheefooska juan ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Tue, 1 Jan 1980 01:25:30 +0200 From: "Oliver Foster" <FOGG@nettaxi.com> To: "RDT Right Now" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: On the balls of my feet Ok. I'm getting just a little bit tired of this. Koba: >>her response to that fucking-asshole-fog (heya, sugarlips!) was pretty good, though. Kiss my ass rentboy. Eric Thelen: >>I think the original and Tori's version can well co-exist beside one another, almost like two completely independent songs. I think it's the only way they can co-exist! >>I have seen a TV interview with Tori and a German interviewer in which he claims to have heard that Nirvana has made fun of her version of the song and that Nirvana has sometimes played it over the speakers before their shows. From that on, Tori really gives the interviewer a hard time. She lookes him directly in the eyes and basically lets him know that he has no clue at all. Maybe Tori (gasp) is the one who has no clue, because if Nirvana thought it was a joke, well that pretty much says it all. She might have her opinion about what she was doing, but Kurt didn't seem to agree. Kurt's breakfast cereal quote supports that theory. Valerie quotes me: >>try 'Pennyroyal tea'. Much more Tori. ... It[slts]'s not her song. She has others that suit her better. >>it's this that was interesting to me. if all tori covered were softer songs that "fit" her persona (as we know it) then where would the challenge be? tori's covers Yeah, but she covers Smells in her sort of her softer style (not even her pissed off style). If she wanted to be different and "challenge herself" she should have bought a guitar and sang it in a mosh pit. >>and tori shows that she does not ignore the beauty of smells like teen spirit in her cover. I think Kurt WOULD have trashed 'Precious things'. He was a punk rocker, remember? He tears apart 'Gloria' by Van Morrison in the song 'Spank Thru', it's a total mockery. And that brings back my original point: Smells is NOT beautiful. >>completely different way to illustrate those same emotions. tell me the cover is still not "vicious. Primitive. Primal." It's not. It's wispy and ethereal. >>if anything, tori's version of slts might even be more "vicious" because those feelings of complete abhorance are restrained Look, when I heard the original I wanted to burn down my house. I don't feel angry after Tori's. Teen Spirit is about letting those feelings show, not restraining them. On to Lisa: >>oh fog you are a dweeb :P and still wrong...lol..no soundtrack, just the crucify ep...and it still rocks :) and you don't like Yes Anastasia?? oh my....what are we going to do with you... It was on a local movie about gangsterism in the Cape flats. Nothing you guys would have seen, sorry about that. And it's my perogative what I like, I don't moan at all the people who don't like 'Not the red baron', which just so rocks my world.:-P >>Kurt's version does nothing for me. maybe it's a gender thing.. I think someone who doesn't like the original is ill equipped to pass judgement on my judgement. Sorry, but I feel Kurt wrote it, and Tori's must receive more stringent scrutiny than the original. Coming into the home stretch, Beth Winegarner: >>You're pretty bold to come 'round here and tell us it sucks though. I don't think it takes away from the original (which I also adore) in the slightest. At least you like the original. But YOU are the one who is pretty bold to tell me I'm wrong. I like the fuzz and distortion. I can hear it's a good song with it, it's a good song because of it. If Kurt wanted to strip it down, it would've been on the unplugged roster. And damn right. I'll say whatever I like as long it doesn't hurt anybody. You talk as if because you were here first you should have the right to censor me, and that my opinion is of lesser value. If you don't like what I have to say, don't read my posts. I suppose you want to live in a world where everyone agrees with you. >>Ugly is beautiful. Nope. >>Beautiful is ugly. Nope again. >>Play with the words,with the ideas behind them. Well, then there's no point. I'm sorry, you can validate anything if you twist words. I prefer to live in the now. Frankly, I apologise to everyone who is sick of me and my ongoing battle. But I get the feeling people are coming down on me because I attacked something Tori did. I'm sorry, but I don't like everything she does. She doesn't care if I do, and I don't expect her to. I don't think she always gets it right. Look at it from my point of view. I like the original. Someone does it over in some totally different style, and it's a song that has REAL significance to me. The new version doesn't do anything for me. I'm pissed off. VERY PISSED OFF. I take the song SERIOUSLY. Some of you like the original. But if you don't, don't come and smack me for disliking a COVER! You are coming out of Tori's corner because you don't like Nirvana! I like both artists, and personally, Tori's song sounds like a joke to me. I worship Siren. I think God is phenomenal. I would die to see Mother live. To dance to Talula. These are works of true beauty. But she was wrong to change the heart of one of my favourite songs, perhaps my favourite song. If I feel like that, I feel like that. And frankly, some of you came off a little patronising, and a bit too sure of themselves. Most just stated their case. But some of you, jeez... And for god's sake, Jorge and Richard, shut the fuck up. I'm sick of everyone being so nice, and intellectual. You are acting like babies. I liked the Peanuts reference, Violet. Thank you. I will not control myself. Fog. ------------------------------------- Anger is a gift Spread the wealth -R.A.T.M Fog -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:17:19 -0600 From: Anna and Tory Mulch <vonmulch@csj.net> To: "bethd299@yahoo.com" <bethd299@yahoo.com>, "bethd299@yahoo.com" <bethd299@yahoo.com>, "binge@egroups.com" <binge@egroups.com>, "Blu79@aol.com" <Blu79@aol.com>, "blu79@aol.com" <blu79@aol.com>, "Boys4PaylA@aol.com" <Boys4PaylA@aol.com>, "BrandCroW@aol.com" <BrandCroW@aol.com>, "bratness@sprint.ca" <bratness@sprint.ca>, Brianna <purplish@rawk.com>, Butterfly Grrrl <sbarano@siue.edu>, "caharris@istrength.net" <caharris@istrength.net>, "cheyannepepper@webtv.net" <cheyannepepper@webtv.net>, "darkshadows_revenge@yahoo.com" <darkshadows_revenge@yahoo.com>, doveydear <redwolf1978@socket.net>, "E.M." <eamcqui@ilstu.edu>, ears with feet <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>, Emily Sanders <emmie13076@yahoo.co.uk>, "empresskara@yahoo.com" <empresskara@yahoo.com>, "Hicky3000@aol.com" <Hicky3000@aol.com>, "hicky3000@aol.com" <hicky3000@aol.com>, "Holliman, Matthew" <matthew.holliman@intel.com>, "hughes@diamondbackrealty.com" <hughes@diamondbackrealty.com>, Julie Rendleman <juls@midwest.net>, "ladypmj@aol.com" <ladypmj@aol.com>, lecy <SirenGrrrI@aol.com>, "LiSaNovA@aol.com" <LiSaNovA@aol.com>, m de falco <m_de_falco@hotmail.com>, "MamaPolarBear@aol.com" <MamaPolarBear@aol.com>, "Manojean@aol.com" <Manojean@aol.com>, "MATTdedood@aol.com" <MATTdedood@aol.com>, "Megan88165@aol.com" <Megan88165@aol.com>, "Miknzinda@aol.com" <Miknzinda@aol.com>, "MunaduaL@aol.com" <MunaduaL@aol.com>, "Mychael S. Wozniak" <mswozniak@postnet.com>, "norm.boutin@avnet.com" <norm.boutin@avnet.com>, "OceanLuv1@aol.com" <OceanLuv1@aol.com>, Peggy Clayton <pclayton@irtc.net>, perry <perbrn@accunet.net>, Phoebe Power <hotmafiachick@hotmail.com>, "Primordius@aol.com" <Primordius@aol.com>, "Rachew@aol.com" <Rachew@aol.com>, "rgullick21@hotmail.com" <rgullick21@hotmail.com>, "samaraszczesny@email.com" <samaraszczesny@email.com>, sara neeves <seneeves@uncg.edu>, "Sbsuga21@aol.com" <Sbsuga21@aol.com>, Shawna Mansour <venusnv@earthlink.net>, "SpAcEeDoGx@aol.com" <SpAcEeDoGx@aol.com>, "swirlee@chickmail.com" <swirlee@chickmail.com>, "swrlgrl@hotmail.com" <swrlgrl@hotmail.com>, "SXe96xxx@aol.com" <SXe96xxx@aol.com>, "Tiffs80s@aol.com" <Tiffs80s@aol.com>, "Vanilla105@aol.com" <Vanilla105@aol.com>, "venusnv99@webtv.net" <venusnv99@webtv.net>, "vonmulch@csj.net" <vonmulch@csj.net>, "WinterLE@aol.com" <WinterLE@aol.com>, "XENAW0MAN@aol.com" <XENAW0MAN@aol.com>, "Yaya053@aol.com" <Yaya053@aol.com>, Zina Slack <zinaandjohn@ezaccess.net> Subject: HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!! just wanted to tell everyone happy valentines day! i hope yours is going good. unfortunatly i have to work:(, but i suppose ill get mine tomorrow:) thank you all so much for being there when i needed someone! that makes you all truly special loveya anna -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 10:05:00 PST From: "John Kwiatkowski" <stickboy0@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: *yuck* Yeah, it's that day again, that day that you say doesn't bother you, that you don't mind spending it alone, then you realize all your doing is trying rationalize... It really does bother me that a month ago I was lying next to Aubry and he was making me cry because he said he loved me. It bothers me that two weeks later he flips out on me and wants to take things back a step, and yeah it bothers me that i'm semi-dating another person while i'm completely in love with 2 others. Is that even possible? Here we go again with me and my heart. It gets me into *so* much trouble. Chad's still around, Chad will always be around. Friday night at the club he looked at David and said 'you're stealing my man.' Then later we talked about high school. My nickname was Stickboy and Chad says "you were never Stickboy to me, you were Sticky, because you were mine and i didn't have to share you with anyone. You'll always be my Sticky." Not a very nice thing to say to someone that you know loves you. And not while his current boyfriend of a year and half is right there. *sigh* Then there's Aubry. I talked to him Saturday. We're really good friends, I don't have a problem with that (and if i could really believe that...) Blah, and the new guy, well i don't know. He's really clingy and I'm all about needed lots of space. He got jealous of my hanging on Chad, okay, anyone I date should be jealous of that, but it's something they are gonna have to deal with. When Chad and I are together we have a tendency to act like a couple. So i'm rambling about this and it's not really doing me any good. I'm going to finish cleaning my apartment and then i'm spending Valentine's Day alone in the park with a notebook and some tori cds. Circumstantial Affections is turning into a book rather quickly. *hugs to everyone* john *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* "Are you an angel? Am I already that gone?" Sarah McLachlan Another Precipice - http://neverblue.tripod.com *~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:05:13 -0800 From: Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.devin.com> To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: Wrapped around your peeps Estraven wrote: > All I see is two grown men--no, two grown > _professionals_--bickering like preschoolers, ruining their (substantial) > reputations and the collective reputation of this list, especially in the > eyes of newbies. Thank you, Estraven. I think a lot of people have been trying to vocalize this for a while now, but none have done it as succinctly as this. I'm on the fringes of this, partly because Richard's a friend and I didn't want to add fuel to the fires on this list. But you can certainly count me among the people who have had it up to here with the fighting. Perhaps your statement can help *anyone* who's beein involved in the flameage to rethink their position in it all. Koba wrote: > what did i tell you?!? peeps peeps peeps. all over the fucking place. i > swear, if winegarner joins in the fray and shares with us HER special peeps > tricks, i'm gonna scream. Get ready to scream, darling. I bought those icky Strawberry Creme peeps-hearts for Valentine's day. They were disgusting to eat, but MAN, my boyfriend thought of some interesting ways to eat them. None of them involved me, thankfully, but let's put it this way: never have I wished more that I was a little heart-shaped piece of artificially flavored pink strawberry marshmallow. > and if you want to talk about a really awful tori cover, let's get down about > "wrapped around your finger." be my valentine? Ahem. WHO doesn't like her cover of "Wrapped Around my Finger?" No one. That's who. Beth -- "Of the passions that see and destroy us * This subtle fire, this secret flame * Torture by desire * Transformation from flesh into spirit." (Nefilim) _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ Visit my web site at http://echoes.devin.com -- see photos and artwork, read poetry and stories, learn about selkies and Sonoma County, and join the froud-faeries list. :) -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 14:57:42 EST From: Fragments1@aol.com To: PsyLiLy@aol.com, SirenGrrrI@aol.com, lupidog@mindspring.com, Nate37@bellsouth.net, rdtrn@torithoughts.org, saskrobis@students.wisc.edu Subject: yippee so, to those who don't know, my sweet iMac returned home today, feeling much better than he did last wednesday when the cdrom drive broke....so. yeah. happy day. :-) -russ -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:49:28 -0800 From: "Eric Thelen" <eric@mySpeech.com> To: "'RDT Right Now'" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: Tori's 'presence' on RDT Hi everybody. Estraven made some points which I thought were very good: > (a) Low as the probability at any one time is, Tori does read this > list: she claims it's a useful indicator of what her EWFs are > thinking. If > petty quarrels begin to predominate, she could well turn her > back on us, > perhaps even sell out altogether a la Mariah, Inc. > Improbable, admittedly, > but not impossible. Money does have a way of shifting one's > paradigms, even > Tori's. Although I think the probability is indeed extremely low that Tori sees anything of what is going on here, I think that this would be a great way for each of us for thinking about what we post: "Is what I am going to write here something I would also say in a public discussion in a room with 1.000 Tori Amos fans while Tori is present?" If everybody would ask themselves "How would I express myself in such a situation?" while writing their posts, it might be that we all would get along even better. That would be a very simple and still individual way of 'self moderation' - unless we also do not have enough respect for Tori. But this is - at least originally - a Tori Amos mailing list, so we should hopefully be ok in that respect. > (b) "Moderate yourselves, lest ye be moderated." Violet (or a future > listowner) might be prompted to take action, as Kosky did > with Hobbes (and > Chris Meyers did with a hacker whose identity I forget). Actually, I think it is a pretty good thing that RDT is basically unmoderated. Violet does a great job in keeping us all in touch - thank you, Violet. Do we also want her to take the burden of judging what is appropriate and what not? But yes, on another mailing list that I am on, several people would probably already have been kicked out for using obscene language. Recently, somebody got kicked out there just for advertising a public FTP-server with bootlegs on it (because the listowner wanted to avoid problems with the law)... There are all kinds of sanctions - people can lose their 'posting privileges' for a certain period or they can be removed completely. (Of course, they can always easily resubscribe with another e-mail address...) As I can see some of you already hitting the 'reply' button to start writing an objection e-mail: This is just an example to encourage a more moderate style in posts. I do NOT ask to remove anybody from the list. I do NOT want the list to be moderated. I do like the idea of 'self moderation'. Everybody enjoy your lives, Eric (with a 'c') -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 12:06:33 -0800 (PST) From: Kara Bergeman <empresskara@yahoo.com> To: vonmulch@csj.net, "bethd299@yahoo.com" <bethd299@yahoo.com>, "binge@egroups.com" <binge@egroups.com>, "Blu79@aol.com" <Blu79@aol.com>, "blu79@aol.com" <blu79@aol.com>, "Boys4PaylA@aol.com" <Boys4PaylA@aol.com>, "BrandCroW@aol.com" <BrandCroW@aol.com>, "bratness@sprint.ca" <bratness@sprint.ca>, Brianna <purplish@rawk.com>, Butterfly Grrrl <sbarano@siue.edu>, "caharris@istrength.net" <caharris@istrength.net>, "cheyannepepper@webtv.net" <cheyannepepper@webtv.net>, "darkshadows_revenge@yahoo.com" <darkshadows_revenge@yahoo.com>, doveydear <redwolf1978@socket.net>, "E.M." <eamcqui@ilstu.edu>, ears with feet <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>, Emily Sanders <emmie13076@yahoo.co.uk>, "Hicky3000@aol.com" <Hicky3000@aol.com>, "hicky3000@aol.com" <hicky3000@aol.com>, "Holliman, Matthew" <matthew.holliman@intel.com>, "hughes@diamondbackrealty.com" <hughes@diamondbackrealty.com>, Julie Rendleman <juls@midwest.net>, "ladypmj@aol.com" <ladypmj@aol.com>, lecy <SirenGrrrI@aol.com>, "LiSaNovA@aol.com" <LiSaNovA@aol.com>, m de falco <m_de_falco@hotmail.com>, "MamaPolarBear@aol.com" <MamaPolarBear@aol.com>, "Manojean@aol.com" <Manojean@aol.com>, "MATTdedood@aol.com" <MATTdedood@aol.com>, "Megan88165@aol.com" <Megan88165@aol.com>, "Miknzinda@aol.com" <Miknzinda@aol.com>, "MunaduaL@aol.com" <MunaduaL@aol.com>, "Mychael S. Wozniak" <mswozniak@postnet.com>, "norm.boutin@avnet.com" <norm.boutin@avnet.com>, "OceanLuv1@aol.com" <OceanLuv1@aol.com>, Peggy Clayton <pclayton@irtc.net>, perry <perbrn@accunet.net>, Phoebe Power <hotmafiachick@hotmail.com>, "Primordius@aol.com" <Primordius@aol.com>, "Rachew@aol.com" <Rachew@aol.com>, "rgullick21@hotmail.com" <rgullick21@hotmail.com>, "samaraszczesny@email.com" <samaraszczesny@email.com>, sara neeves <seneeves@uncg.edu>, "Sbsuga21@aol.com" <Sbsuga21@aol.com>, Shawna Mansour <venusnv@earthlink.net>, "SpAcEeDoGx@aol.com" <SpAcEeDoGx@aol.com>, "swirlee@chickmail.com" <swirlee@chickmail.com>, "swrlgrl@hotmail.com" <swrlgrl@hotmail.com>, "SXe96xxx@aol.com" <SXe96xxx@aol.com>, "Tiffs80s@aol.com" <Tiffs80s@aol.com>, "Vanilla105@aol.com" <Vanilla105@aol.com>, "venusnv99@webtv.net" <venusnv99@webtv.net>, "WinterLE@aol.com" <WinterLE@aol.com>, "XENAW0MAN@aol.com" <XENAW0MAN@aol.com>, "Yaya053@aol.com" <Yaya053@aol.com>, Zina Slack <zinaandjohn@ezaccess.net> Subject: Re: HAPPY VALENTINES DAY!!! HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY!! Wish there was more Tori news to put out so we could all talk again! But, the PPV special will be on this week, I think it's today but I don't know. Let me know how it is, we can't get PPV where I'm at b/c it's on a college campus. How much does that suck!!! Well, I got THE BIG NADA from my fiance because he bought a new truck. But oh well. I hope everyone has someone to love!! And if you don't, you always have Tori to love and she will always love you back!!!!!!! ===== Love ya, Kara "All you can be you are today" --Chris Cornell "I have so many different personalities in me and I still feel lonely!" --Tori Amos __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 15:56:43 -0600 From: andrea <silent@nwu.edu> To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: the fire with all the strength it has >In a message dated 2/11/00 6:36:17 AM !!!First Boot!!!, >rdtrn@torithoughts.org writes: > ><< Isn't it so pretty and magical sounding? I first read in in a Madaline > L'egle book and fell in love with it, then I found it about 8 years later in > a book about Irish myths and legends. I so adore it! > I'm gonna memorize it. > >> > > >love love love madeleine L'engle...what was that from? "a swiftly tilting planets," one of my favorite books as a kid ever. i was at work the other days (borders) and i started reading the beginning again. i used to love the poem as well. i had it memorized and written in random places. it is quite powerful for some reason. the haunting thing about that book is reading it again with greater understand then i had when i was a kid of how bad things can happen and what they entail. been thinking a lot about bad things later. i need to stop and let myself get cheered up. although today i *slept* until *three*, missing two important classes without even being conscious of it. you know, i didn't play the, "oh, fuck it, i'll just go back to sleep and blow my day off" game. i Just Slept and was hazily awoken by the flower man bringing me roses and irises from, as he's known in my dorm, my secret agent loverman. so yay, i'm going to go read or write email. i'm addicted to "sleeping in flame" by jonathon carrol, but it is a book lined with Unease. andrea (slacker) -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 18:13:46 -0600 From: David Woodson <otma@chorus.net> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Torisquaatsi : list out of balance I used to be on this list regularly, but then I moved, and in the process, my lousy computer died. I went for a while without one, then bought an old and slow one, and finally, I have a good machine. All this time, I had been meaning to get back on RDTRN, but with a trip to Sweden to plan last summer, and finding a new job when I got back, and everything else, i never got to it until just recently. I decided to wait a while before posting anything to see who was there and what was going on. Although I'm sure the topic is starting to wear out it's welcome, I'm going to give you my perspective on the "true tori fan" idea. In the beginning, Tori's following wasn't too big. She was touring in mid sized clubs, not arenas, and the meet and greets were intimate gatherings with no barricades and lots of time for Tori to spend with each person who showed up. A community of fans (Toriphiles, EWF's, etc.) was created, and it became one of the most dedicated fan communities in existence, not just to Tori, but also to it's members. Time went by, and Tori gained fame and popularity. Mainstream culture began to notice her existence. Her name was increasingly heard. More and more fans were attracted. This process continued and escalated. Tori brought Caton with her in '96. In '98, she brought a full band. The shows moved into large arenas. Meet and greets became crowds. Tori is well known enough to non fans to have been spoofed on SNL. The little Tori bootleg community that used to trade cassette tapes with hand lettered j-cards has graduated to CDR's with computer generated inserts, and to seeing unscrupulous individuals selling their labours of love on e-bay at commercial boot prices. There are certain things that always happen when a "cult" or "indie" artist becomes a big time indie artist, if not actually mainstream. One of them is that their fan base widens a lot. While it is certainly wrong to suggest that all Toriphiles have ever been uniform, it wouldn't be untrue to suggest that there has always been a certain kind of person more likely than not to be drawn to her. If you are in the area of a show, there are always people on the street you can look at and immediately know where they are going. These points of commonality have helped to establish the "Tori community," because Toriphiles generally found they shared more than just their fandom. If a person liked Tori, there were at least a few things that were assumed about them. They were assumed to be non-sexist, non homophobic, open minded in general. They were assumed to be creative thinkers, deeply emotional and in search of something more in life than birth-school-work-death. The popular jock or cheerleader who ostracized and tormented you through high school wasn't going to be in line next to you at a Tori show, or reading your post to RDT. People felt that they could be very open among EWF's, not only because of Tori's inspiration, but because of the assumption of a like-minded community of people who were on a similar path and who would respect the space they were in. As Tori's fan base widens, as more fans are drawn in, including more casual fans, I believe there will be a natural fear that these assumptions may become less certain. Any indie artist who becomes "popular" will inevitably lose some old fans, who proclaim that they have become "too commercial" and who "only like the old stuff." This is often due as much to the feeling that the sense of community they had among a small group of alternative fans was diluted by the influx of new fans from the mainstream as it is to actual changes in the artist's sound. Sometimes it's just old fashioned frustrated elitism as well, but where actual "fan communities" exist, there is a real fear of glancing over and seeing that jock or cheerleader next to you in the crowd. A fear that you'll mention RAINN to someone at a Tori show and have them say "Who cares? I'm just here for a rock concert." This can lead to a desire to separate "true fans" (people who are part of the Tori community) from "not true fans" (people who aren't) In the community, there are certain people who are seen as "superfans," due to their knowledge and contacts, their extensive bootleg collections, their incredible web site or their long list of shows attended, m&g's attended, photos and autographs collected, etc. Along with the inevitable envy this can inspire in people whose finances, schedules, etc. do not allow them to do these things, there is also a certain subconscious feeling that perhaps these superfans really are more dedicated to Tori than anyone else. Although I doubt anyone (least of all the "superfans" themselves) actually believes it, I suspect many people have been intimidated by the idea that this is what being a "true fan" requires. If that person there is dedicated enough to their fandom to have seen dozens of shows, collected virtually every commercial and bootleg recording ever made or gotten on a first name basis with Caton's guitar tech's hairdresser's baby-sitter's cat, does this mean I'm less of a fan for not doing so? In the end, this competition (or perhaps more accurately, perception of competition) for "Tori points" obscures the real issue, which is an attempt to hold together a community of Toriphiles by defining who is in and who is not. A person's appreciation of Tori, and their dedication to the ideals of the Tori community cannot be measured by the size of their CD collection or the number of ticket stubs in their scrapbook. Certainly all the "superfans" are "true fans," but, barring evidence to the contrary, so is everyone else on RDTRN, and a lot of people who are not. No one has to prove themselves to be part of the Toriphile community. The fact you choose to be here is the only entrance requirement, and you will be a member of the community in good standing unless you prove by your words or actions that you should not be. Can a popular jock or cheerleader be a Toriphile? That's between them and Tori. If they come around here and act like a good member of the community, they are in. They are "true fans." Briefly stated, (too late) All Toriphiles are true fans. Everyone here is assumed to be a Toriphile unless they prove otherwise. So are a lot of people not online. You don't need a mohawk to be punk. Punk is an attitude, not an accessory. The same can be said for being a Toriphile. The arguing going on now, however, really has nothing to do with the "true fan" issue. It's a personality clash that may have grown out of this issue, at least in part, but has taken on a life of its own, and now exists only as an ongoing struggle to have the last word. It's a flame war, nothing more. Eventually, it will die out. Not soon enough, and perhaps not without causing damage, but eventually it will. In the meantime, I'm going to enjoy being back on RDTRN. I've been away so long, I can't even remember who hates Alanis. It's nice to see so many familiar names still here, as well as some new ones. Well, that was a long post, and not really suitable for list form. Maybe I'll number my lines next time too ;) -Dave "and here is a red balloon . . . i think of you . . . and let it go . . ." -Nena -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 17:11:45 PST From: "Laura Heywood" <laurahey@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Re: RDT Right Now #947 1. wassup estraven???? you said, "And a belated "welcome back" to Lauralaurahey of the nine billion names--living proof that depression is curable". :) thanks :) er, for the record... i don't think of it as 'cured' so much as 'in remission'... i don't feel qualified to compare it to alchoholism, but for me it is something that copmes back sometimes... i have just gotten good at combatting it. i am *recovering* even as we speak, and i think i will be for the rest of my life. i wonder sometimes if that is my own way of keeping a grasp of waht was my 'identity' for so very long... i'm still mighty protective of that. maybe someday i'll be able to say "it's over" but for now i like saying "look how good i've been about fighting it off!" 2. on that same kind of a note -- i have never felt so great about myself. ever. or my friends. it is fabulous. 3. buy sheila nicholls' album BRIEF STROP. i have tried to send two long posts about it and both ahve failed. so just BUY it. 4. i hve no valentine and i like that. this year i am my own valentine. 5. lavs said, "LheyAheyUheyRheyA typed: Well, nothing". HEEEE HEEEE HEEEE!!!!!!! someday i will list them all, you had better be careful giving me more names, it will just make for a longer list...!!! 6. violet, did you make that snoopy yourself? made my tears well. thanks. 7. tonight is vagina night... the big final performance..! wish me luck! adios friends, laurahey ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:10:57 EST From: Sahara8383@aol.com To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: yo yo yo valerie quoth: "Subject: wandering stars for whom it is preserved" PORTISHEAD!!!! thats one of my fave songs from there. and i choreographed this sweet ass thing to 'glory box' and 'numb'. hehe. oh lordy i'm so sick of this jorge/handal shit. (and don't tell me to scroll cuz i'm the queen of the scroll thingy but it doesn't keep me from seeing three page rants at each other) can we make it a rule that they have to STOP IT? i'm sorry guys i respect you both, i really do, but come on. take it privately or something. sorry to be a bitch, but oh well. thats what i is. "i don't have nothing" ~Meghan MQ (Spanish teacher quote) -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2000 02:16:08 GMT From: "Succubus Barbie" <delirium1479@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Nice dress. How can I get into it? 1. Hehehe, I love come on lines. Like this one; I may not be Fred Flintstone but I can make your bed rock. 2. Hehehe, okay. So, anyways, I'm utterly thrilled that people actually read my story and (*gasp*) responded positively to it. I've never gotten over the fact that when you send something to this list, people might actually READ WHAT YOU'VE WRITTEN and RESPOND TO IT! My god! The concept! 3. (Sorry, I'm still struggling to grasp that the internet is not so private after all, and that it might actually be quite public) 4. So, anyways, your opinions. Would Tori be considered a leader? Because that's what I'm doing for my project in english. Much to the disapproval of my English teacher, whose idea of a hero might be along the lines of Abe Lincoln or George Washington. Hehe, I should have done Forest Gump and argued that fictional people can have just as much a following as those in real life, if not more of one. 5. Ah, english... The class in which anyone with an IQ above 80 would find duller than a pair of safety scissors. I hate Franklin. 6. Well, I think I shall nod my head to miss/ms/mrs Laurenhey for her patented number system and deeply wish in the back of my mind that _I_ had thought of it. Oh well. 7. And to the person who mentioned Madeline L'engle, I completely forget which book it was that the poem came from, but only remember that it was good. Bye! Megan Christine Auffart *************************************** What if a much of a which of a wind Gives the truth to summers lie Bloodies with dizzying leaves the sun And yanks the immortal stars awry -e.e. cummings *************************************** http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Pond/1197/ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 21:56:42 EST From: Fragments1@aol.com To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: part 1 abby said: <<I bought Jagged Little Pill yesterday and you guys wanna know the worst part? I LOVE it! >> I WIN!!! I WIN!!! AHAHAHA!~!~ take that, jorge!!! one more legion in the JLP army!!!! woohoo!!!! which reminds me of a funny story about this past weekend i'm too tired to tell right now.. -russ o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o *** I Would Love To Chew Your Pie For You digest *** To POST messages to this list: <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Can't figure out how to SUB, UNSUB, or CHANGE ADDRESSES? Send a message to <rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org> with "help" as the subject. Digest PROBLEMS or QUESTIONS? Contact: <admin@torithoughts.org> Want your BIRTHDAY announced on RDTRN in 2000? Visit the registration form located at http://www.torithoughts.org/RDTRN/birthday.html For information on joining the ToriTour list: Send a blank message to <tour@torithoughts.org> and you'll receive an instruction file. RDTRN SITE AND ARCHIVES: http://www.torithoughts.org The RDTRN FAQ can be found at: http://members.xoom.com/whorehay/FAQMain.html Any self-respecting Toriphile is on The Registry. (That means you!) http://members.aye.net/~mikewhy/registry.html _ . /\ , _ _ ( _ )_ {Oo\{o\ .=. ( ` )_ (_ _(_ ,) {o: \:.\ / \ ( ) `) | {O:' \:.-'_.-\_)____ (_ (_ . _) _) \ _ / {o:. /`~('-./-----.\ -= (_) =- }o: // /| `/\ ( ) / \ {O:'// /-' /\/\ ( ` ) . ) | }o-/( <___ \'/ /\/\/\ (_, _( ,_)_) /o./ ;--._)====* -\/\/\/ `"`\ \ /.\ `""` \ \ \ \ wWWWw wWWWw /`\ ) vVVVv (___) wWWWw (___) vVVVv |/| | vVVVv (___) ~O~ (___) vVVVv ~H~ (___) vVVVv _// \| (___) ~H~ \| ~U~ (___) |/ ~T~ (___) | / || \~T~/ \| \ |/ \| / \~G~/ \| \ |/ \~S~/ |/ / | \\|// \\|// \\|// \\|/// \\|// \\|// \\\|/// \\|// ` `\| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ` thanks for visiting this pretty garden

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