RDTRN Archive - RDT Right Now #1717

RDT Right Now #1717

From: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 23:51:23 -0700
Subject: RDT Right Now #1717
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org

Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to: <rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org> with "unsubscribe" in the subject and body. o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 02 : Issue #1717 . o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o . o o . o o O "Thoughts right now... O o What will become of me, o o Become of her, become of we?" o . o o . O O O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O o . o o o Tori Amos, "Thoughts" In this issue: o-o-o-o-o-o-o woody woodpecker's woody woodpecker. [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ] *poking my head up* [ Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.de ] Forbidden words [ Chris <cmeyers@oasis.novia.net> ] Lavs must be so happy! [ Succubus Megan <Abulia@imaterrorist ] YAY!!! THREE RDTRNS AT ONCE!!! [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ] Jaymes Warnock is back...I need help [ "Chroma keys" <faraway_eyes@hotmail ] multiple articles and multiple partn [ john bragazzi <utown@worldnet.att.n ] oink oink [ "Lavenda" <earth@comcen.com.au> ] It's that time again [ Brian Cooper <ByteMe@smartchat.net. ] Friends-exhausting [ "Julie H." <julieh214@hotmail.com> ] Jump in the line, Rock your body in [ Succubus Megan <Abulia@imaterrorist ] "Tori Amos Writes Scarlet Letters, D [ "penny king" <pennyking@triad.rr.co ] [ =======================> In RDT History <======================= ] On September 23rd in 1993, members were listing their favourite music artists/songwriters, and an article from the Knoxville News Sentinel's "Detours" section is posted: "If you're going to do a cover, it has to be a complete challenge." she says, adding that her next remake -- of Anita Ward's 1979 disco smash "Ring My Bell" -- will be her last. This sparks discussion about Tori doing covers and fans suggesting covers, and Tori makes numer 98 on Rolling Stones 'Top 100 Music Videos'. In 1994, Merry Clayton, a connection between Home On The Range and Honey, comparing LE and UTP, and female musicians and skimpy clothes as empowerment. In 1995, the Leonard Cohen tribute album, and a member posts that she has seen an advanced screening of 'How to Make an American Quilt' but that it only had a temporary score and she didn't hear Tori's duet with Michael Stipe. In 1997, some brief talk about Tori's next album coming out in '98, and a call to arms for members to forward digests on to AOL subscribers. In 1998, Tori and rap, Raspberry Swirl (the friend/man thing), and a couple of members post about the recent strange names that have been given the list by admin (eg: To: please kill me now <rdtrn@nopost.org>, To: flight of luminous insects <rdtrn@nopost.org>, and To: really deep tots <rdtrn@nopost.org>). [Blame Scotch ... he was babysitting the digest from #311 to #320. You can see his list nicknames in the To field of those digests in the archive. -- Violet] In 2000, part II of the "Being John Malcovich" question is posed: if we were in Tori's head, what would we like to observe her doing, and what would we have her doing if we were in 100% control?. In 2001, more comments on the SLG album, and more discussion following on from Sept 11. [ =======================> In RDT History <======================= ] On September 24th in 1993, members post more favourite music artists/songwriter lists, and discuss Tori and covers. In 1994, a parody of "The Wrong Band", titled "The Wrong Hand" is posted to the list: cos ther;e's typo'ds here in this message agian there are tyop's in this message again in stead of clear reasdding instead o f c leatry reading insted of readabillityy Also, more comparisons between LE and UTP, a request for yearbook quote suggestions, and a member posts about possible connections between the book "Cosmic Trigger" and the song "Space Dog". Plus a post from a member who got to work on setting up for a Tori show; go visit, it is an interesting read (Subject: A different perspective on a Tori show...). In 1996, security at Tori shows. In 1998, Tori and drugs, problems with the videos on the Jackie's Strength single, and high school. In 2000, responses to the 'Tori for 15 mins' questions star rolling in. In 2001, continued discussion on events following Sept 11, and comments on the SLG album. To read more about these items, visit the list archives. [ ================================================================== ] Today's fuzzy ferret assistant: Lavenda Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives: http://www.torithoughts.org/rdtrn/archives -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 14:08:18 -0400 From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: woody woodpecker's woody woodpecker. howdy doody! it's almost 2PM and I just woke up about 20 minutes ago and I'm totally draggin'.. poo. anyway.. *yawn* it's been raining, FINALLY.. we need the rain here in GA.. lol.. anyway.. on with the replies! :D Jewel said of the tour dates: "ahhh! i must go! but, as i noticed cindi also mentioned, i need advice!" oh boy, at least I'm not alone! o_O lol.. seriously, good luck with getting YOUR hands on some tickets.. :D who here got their hands on that A Sorta Fairytale e-card that Tori's website's been offering? I did.. and I think it looks quite awesome! :D Bethey replied to my transfer paper/t-shirt question, basically explaining what she did and saying "go for it".. thanks for the tips! :) Ade met another Toriphile in her writing group: "yay! meeting other tori lovers just makes me so happy... which is why i love this list, of course! and y'all are a bunch of crazy, wonderful, loveable weirdos! heeeeee!" hee hee! I love being weird. :D as for your aunt having plastic surgery for the same reason I did.. erm.. OUCH.. that had to SUCK.. boy.. I love dogs, but they sure can be a trip sometimes, huh? :P Julie wrote about her day.. sounds fun.. :-\ well except for when you had your headphones on and that classmate of yours ratted on you. Does she do this often? :P nobody needs to be harassed, I don't think. :P ... all right, this one wound up being really short.. hmm.. whatever. much love! *runs away!* Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html -- http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ -- http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ -- http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ -- http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do. Not. Describe. Myself." ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:38:42 -0700 From: Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.devin.com> To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: *poking my head up* So yeah, I know, I've been very quiet around here lately. Partly it's that I haven't had much to contribute to the conversations (although I definitely don't think Tori was saying she's already had botox shots, just that one shouldn't dismiss it outright. You never know...) Partly it's that I've been busy with other things. I knew Tori tour time and things with Fields of the Nephilim would happen at the same time - I just had the feeling. (For those of you who don't know, I run Sumerland, a web site for a mailing list associated with the band). What's going on with Fields at this point is a lesson in what NOT to do in the music industry, both as a musician and as a record label. If you are a label, do NOT invest thousands of quid in an artist who has a reputation for - well, not producing anything of consequence on his own without a lot of time, effort, whingeing and drama. And, if you are a musician fitting this description, do not think you can get away with just taking the money, making some crappy demos, and not ever producing anything of worth. Or that you can screw your former bandmates out of their royalties. (And, as a corollary, if you are a fan of such a person, do not be disappointed when the inevitable occurs). The band's label is releasing a compilation of demos, outtakes, previously-releaed materials and live stuff as a "new" album under a name which they are not legally allowed to use, knowing the fan base will buy it anyway. It's a pretty ugly situation for everyone - label, musicians, ex-bandmates, fans, etc. It's made me thankful that Tori is so relatively level-headed. Although that still doesn't explain why the tour dates and associated information have been so hard to come by. :P Aside from all of that, things have been busy here at home. Work has been insane - I've had to do a lot of extra work for people on vacation, etc. recently. Devin and I found out recently we'll have to move to keep our rent affordable, but as luck would have it, our landlord needs to move us out of our (huge, elaborate, expensive) unit, and has offered a cheaper one that's just about right. And I've been going through a tremendous amount of personal change and growth... I won't go into it here, but it's been really mindblowing. Sometimes I think this summer, from say July to this moment, was many months or years longer than it was, for all that's happened. Have any of you ever had the experience where you went through something - you found something out, and were very hurt by it at first, but the pain brought you right down deep into the center of the issue, and you were able to let your fears and pain go and accept a new way of looking at yourself and the world? I'm afraid I'm being way too vague, not explaining this right... I've done the sort of thing where extreme hurt caused me to push an issue aside, and not look at it or touch it; this is common among humans. But I'm talking about taking that pain and using it as a catalyst for personal transformation - looking at a painful situation objectively, and realizing there's no reason for hurt at all. Asking yourself the questions that need to be asked for the situation to be resolved in your own mind - and realizing it's okay to let go of the fears you long held. Realizing that letting go of those fears and pain makes more like the person you wanted to become. The only reason I mention it is that I was so awed by this process of unfolding, and letting go, like shedding a skin or letting a part of myself (that had more than served its purpose) fall away. I've never been through anything quite like it. Smaller things - I finished reading "Fellowship of the Ring" a month or so ago for the first time, and am most of the way through "The Two Towers" now. I also recently shared my Sandman books with a friend who reminds me very strongly of Morpheus. With everything going on I haven't had a ton of time for reading, but it's nice to be able to escape to Middle Earth now and then. Anyhow, I hope all of you are well. Beth -- "This country has a deep fear and mistrust of strong, smart, accomplished, outspoken women unless they are sexy 22-year-olds killing vampires on television." -- Dennis Miller _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._ music reviews + stories + poetry + photography + collage + Watchers livejournal + selkies + esoterica + links = http://echoes.devin.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 21:52:38 -0500 (CDT) From: Chris <cmeyers@oasis.novia.net> To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: Forbidden words I just don't believe in forbidden words as much as someones motives. True story: My grandparents were VERY racist, and vocal...and here I am an child of mixed race while they say these things... But they loved me, and I loved them and they spoke from ignorance and it was never directed at me. Some people are just stupid, but not malicious really... I've only had to beat one person into the ground over such things and it was because he didn't stop for 6 months solid. Finally I decided he needed to have his focus changed to something more productive and I took care of it. Some people are quite creative in their terms for certain groups, but typically I won't worry too much about it until someone decides to put their hands on me, which requires action of course... I'm not a pacifist...I just don't entertain peoples stupidity easily. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 20:44:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Succubus Megan <Abulia@imaterrorist.com> To: Really Deep Thoughts Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: Lavs must be so happy! Hehe! "Tori verifies that she will tour again in the States starting in January 2003 and then begin her European tour around March 2003. There are plans to do "something" in Australia at some point in 2003, but no details were given. (Not sure if that means a tour or just a promotional visit of some kind!)" Hurrah for you, Lavs! Now you'll finally have your chance to see her, down there in the land of koalas and Fosters, Australian for beer. Now you can stop complaining about how she never visits! Hurrah! How Now, Brown Cow? Megan Christine Auffart *************************************** I never saw a Purple Cow, I never hope to see one; But I can tell you anyhow, I'd rather see than be one! --- Gelett Burgess (1866-1951) *************************************** http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/abulia/ _____________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE insane email from tshirthell.com's E-Mail Hell at http://www.tshirthell.com _____________________________________________________________ Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email@yourgroup.org by Everyone.net http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 02:08:47 -0400 From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: YAY!!! THREE RDTRNS AT ONCE!!! WAHOO!! THREE DIGESTS TO REPLY TO!! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!! :D *ahem*.. on with the replies! the retro said: "In 1998, strippers, and a very detailed description of crotch scum." crotch scum. hmm... I'm almost afraid to go look in the retro to see that description.. Julie H. informed us that her brother is taking her out to see Tori when she gets to her area.. YAY!! be sure to tell us all about it! :) Doug thanked us for sending him birthday wishes.. you're welcome! :) Lavs said in reply to Julie's response to my "we should be able to record our dreams" ramble: "We need to live in the Red Dwarf world :) Though I'm not sure I want to see Cat's dream about him, 6 girls and a large tub of banana yoghurt (or whatever it was... ok, so I'm slipping). Tongue Tied on the other hand, cracks me up everytime." Red Dwarf.. more info please.. *poke*poke* please, please.. PRETTY PLEASE with a CHERRY ON TOP PLEAAAASE? Lavs then said to me: "Cyndi, back in 2000 people (on list) seemed to think pubic hair was for plaiting and dying and shaving into a heart shape (and who knows what else they thought it was good for but didn't mention)." haaahahahah.. interesting.. but what I wanna know is.. WHY DO WE GET IT IN THE FIRST PLAAAAAACE??? rofl oh and you ever hear that joke about this chick who goes into the emergency room.. and has appendicitis and so the nurse undresses her and sees her pubic hair dyed green and a tattoo that says "keep off of the grass" and then the nurse had to shave some of it and wrote on the surgical dressing "sorry, had to mow the lawn." ? rofl.. verrrrrrrrrry interesting story about your teacher's nose being bitten off.. ouchness.. Julie said: "I like meeting other Tori fans because a lot of the times, the music a person listens to reflects who they are. Which means, they must be a big thinker, kinda quirky, open minded, smart, etc." very very true. my top seven artists are Tori, Green Day, Kid Rock, Madonna, Michael Jackson, Marilyn Manson and Nine Inch Nails.. I wonder what that--based on my music tastes alone--makes people think? *GRIN* Deadra, get well soon! that CD is sitting by me, screaming at me to drop it in the mailbox already (same for you Arija).. I'm so slow, but they're almost on the way out! Deadra on Tori and botox: "About Tori getting Botox, I don't know. She has changed over the years but... If she did, cool. If not, cool. I don't care what she does, she'll always be a beautiful goddess who is the most talented person I have ever seen and I would follow her anywhere. I adore her." shoot, don't a LOT of people do botox nowadays anyway?? only thing I don't approve of it is that it destroys nerves that can't move anymore so like seeing someone with a half-dead face is a little creepy to me. other 'n that.. whooooooo caaaaarrrrrres? so long as it doesn't affect her mouth (she's gotta be able to move her mouth to SING!) I'll be fine. :D and Deadra, dear, you didn't bore us. :D Jim said: "....I still watch late-night porn on Skinemax." I've seen that while flipping through channels.. is that "real porn" or is it all soft and like more "erotica" than PORN? *curious but not gonna look on Skinemax myself to find out.. o_O* Julie said, of her day... : "As I sit at the computer, I'm listening to the Little Earthquakes album...replaying "Precious Things" like crazy...that song is wonderful." so do I! were you on this list when I made that post to here about how it makes me think of a thunderstorm coming in? I looooooove the mental images it gives me! :D Ade said in reply to my "why do we have pubic hair?" thing.. "probably to keep that area warm. what i'm wondering is WHY the heck we have armpit hair!" same reason perhaps?? :D Ade in reply to my "nothing on me airbrushed or nipped & tucked!" bit: "you sexy bitch! *sings* you make me feel like a natural woman (WOMAN)..." WAHOO!!!! shake it baby! *shakes it!* and on that note, I'm gonna shake it on out of here and play some more SSX Tricky while listening to Tori music and then other random mp3s instead of the built in techno bop music (and I LIKE techno!) in the game.. JOY! but first.. HAPPY BIRTHDAY TAIT!!!!! :D Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html -- http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ -- http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ -- http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ -- http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do. Not. Describe. Myself." ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 23:08:36 -0800 From: "Chroma keys" <faraway_eyes@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Jaymes Warnock is back...I need help Hello, I have read over the YEARS about Jaymes Warnock (although he is now going by Easter Bradford)..and enough is enough. I called Mike from thedent.com today and it seems that the little bitch is not in jail YET. That's about to change. But I need your help. I have compiled a list of articles, emails, blurbs, and what-not's on Jaymes activity since 1996 and with the added help from you, I can complete this and see that something is done now. What I need from this group is your story. How did Jaymes rip you off and for how much? Please put your REAL first name (don't need last) and the dates you can remember. Here's some info if you too are looking for Jaymes Warnock: He's moved back to Louisiana..New Orleans actually. His web page: http://www.geocities.com/nicestslice/ If you REALLY want to laugh and grit your teeth in anger..check out his bio and what his close "friend" Tori Amos said about him....as well as Madonna, Cyndi Lauper, Margaret Cho, etc. This is not a crusade against a person. Jaymes Warnock is NOT a human being. He is a lying, manipulative, egotistical little man. To see him in jail surrounded by the ones he hates would be a happy day for a lot of people. Email me soon at: faraway_eyes@hotmail.com Thanks..looking forward to "Scarlet's Walk"! Pianoman _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 06:35:38 -0400 (EDT) From: john bragazzi <utown@worldnet.att.net> To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: multiple articles and multiple partners Jim's discussion of polyamory was interesting, but I believe that, historically, in societies where this was practiced, the different partners all knew about each other. In a related topic, I just heard on the radio that three people (a married couple and the husband's brother) were just arrested for having sex together on the Long Island Rail Road. I think that, whatever you happen to think of non-monogamous relationships, this was probably not the smartest place to carry out those beliefs. Also, to add to my previous point asking people not post the tour list again and again and again, I ask (as I have before) that people, especially people who don't actually participate in the conversation here, post *links* to articles, not the whole articles. I just got three new digests in my Inbox at the same time, and I scrolled even more I did than when people were posting all those surveys. Thanks. As B/4, John (who likes to have conversations with multiple partners at the same time) [Note from Violet: woj had been posting tour info here because he works on ToriTour and was unsure whether he should be sending updates here as well. Coincidentally, a couple of days ago I told him to hold off on sending tour notes here, since ToriTour had originally been started to prevent a flood of tour info on this list. Unfortunately, I didn't ask until I was already three days behind in sending a digest out, so that made it seem like even more; if I had been up-to-date on the digests, there would have been more posts from members spacing the tour notes out. So yeah, anywho, apolgies from both woj and I for all the tour info posted here recently.] -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 22:06:22 +1000 From: "Lavenda" <earth@comcen.com.au> To: "Arty Turners Walk" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: oink oink Wow... can't say I've seen anyone hog a digest like that woj-stick did in #1715 ;) PS... you know you've been reading the archives too much when you scroll to the bottom of a new digest and are looking for the 'next digest' link :) X Lavs -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 21:08:45 +1000 From: Brian Cooper <ByteMe@smartchat.net.au> To: Really Deep Thrusts Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: It's that time again Bethany was complaining about all the incidental nonsense that goes on with a Tori tour - I have an answer for you... move to Australia, then you can avoid all that. Room to let. Apply within. The new improved and very sincere Cyndi wrote in #1713: >what in the world is the point of pubic hair??? So that when you're in Tasmania you'll always know where you are. Megan's "fucktard" post... I think you already know the answer to your question Megan. Life's too short to play games of is he/isn't he single. He came on to you and created this whole situation. If he was just looking for a friend, he shouldn't have acted the way he did. Be the succubus you proclaim to be - eat his soul. Brian -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 08:19:24 -0500 From: "Julie H." <julieh214@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Friends-exhausting 9/23/02 8:16 am Hey really deep thinkers, sometimes I think it is 10 million times easier to make a best friend over the internet than to make one face to face...I'm telling you...it really works better. I'm a better writer than I am a talker at times...I open up myself better through writing. I'm friendlier and less shy when I E-mail, write, etc. Most of my friends are online anyways. I'm having trouble breaking the ice with my new friends...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....another day of school... Julie H. E-mail & MSN IM: JulieH214@hotmail.com MTV Member: JulieH214 AOL IM: JulieH0214 Yahoo! IM: Juls21487 PLEASE DONATE MONEY TO THE LISA LOPES AIDS SCHOLARSHIP at mtv.com _________________________________________________________________ Join the world�s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 09:05:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Succubus Megan <Abulia@imaterrorist.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Jump in the line, Rock your body in time Hola mes amies! A person named Jim wrote a post which I shall now reply to! >No, you're not being a pussy; I believe that you overreacted more >than a little bit when you learned of his girlfriend in the first >place. I don't know if I overreacted or not. Honestly. I'm not sure. Your post led to much confusion and disquiet for a good 5 minutes there. >are you saying that you >wouldn't even *consider* the possibility of finding out more about >that new someone? Of course there's always stuff to find out about a person. I'm not mad at him that he kept some stuff to himself. I wouldn't be mad at him if he kept the fact that he had a girlfriend to himself IF it wasn't for the fact that he acted as though he did _not_ have a girlfriend when around me. I believe that once you have someone that you can officially consider a 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend', one should not flirt with other people. However, there are 2 exceptions to this rule: 1. Your girlfriend/boyfriend knows you like to flirt and doesn't mind. 2. The person who you are flirting with _knows_ that you are merely being a flirt and are not actually interested in persuing a more-than-just-friends relationship. Alex broke both those rules and thus I found myself feeling extremely manipulated. And played, though I hate the word. Although I'm pretty sure he was aiming at neither. He was just confused and tried to figure out what he really wanted, but still his actions left me feeling really hurt. The ends don't justify the means, but the ends still fucked up my trust in him, despite his less-than-evil means. > >I concede that I'm a flirt. And I like looking. I subscribe to >Playboy. I still watch late-night porn on Skinemax. Jenn accepts >this, without compunction or hesitation. (She actually likes to read >the magazine once I'm done with it.) There's absolutely nothing wrong with this, in my opinion. Skinemax and Playboy are fantasies which can never really become reality. If I decide to get a boyfriend and he likes to occasionally look at porn, I'd be willing to accept that. Everyone has stuff that you have to accept about them and I don't think looking at the airbrushed ideals of womanhood is as bad as flirting when you have a girlfriend. After all, the airbrushed models never have a chance to respond to how much you like them, while the flirtee has that chance. >He has a girlfriend you've never met, and, if you >hadn't found out about her, things would still be unchanged as far as >you're concerned. Would it be any different for you if he had told >you? In the beginning, you mean? Friendship-wise, not at all, because when he told me I was pretty, then I would've just been like, 'aww, nice complement' instead of agonizing over the fact that I'm very not prepared for guys liking me, that it had never happened before (I was so shy with guys during highschool, it was almost one of those psychological things) and when he actually told me that he did, I freaked out because guys were new to me and still are. I believe that honesty is a very important thing. I don't think I would have reacted to the flirting nearly so strongly had he mentioned the slight fact that he was taken prior to the flirting. >Have you ever dated more than one person at the same time? Nope, never. But then, once again with my complete and total shyness when it comes to guys. I would never have the balls even if I did lose my ideals about relationships. >Here's something to ponder. Assume the following: >-- you don't know about Crystal >-- he's with you and everything is the same as it was before you found out >-- he and Crystal break up, with the resulting emotional distress on his part >-- you perceive that something's wrong and you ask him >-- this is when he tells you about her I probably would've been deeply disturbed that he had never mentioned her to me while flirting (<--- My main problem here) but I'd probably have tried to cheer him up about it first and been all supportive for a week until telling him how disturbed I was. That's a 'probably', though, because no one can tell exactly what they'd do in a 'what if' situation. >Now flip the tables. Are you saying you'd tell Alex (or anyone else) >right away that you'd met someone else you would like to know more >about? That's an interesting question.... I believe that members of the opposite sex can certainly be just friends so maybe I would tell my sig. other... Unless, of course, I already knew that I was attracted to the person and wasn't just intrigued by them....then I honestly don't know. I'd probably consult my friends and do what the majority of them advised, but I still can't honestly say what I'd do. It'd depend on the extent of the attraction, I guess. >There may be some lines that are taboo >to cross, but even those taboos deserve to be questioned seriously. I think flirting is a step below cheating. Not as bad, certainly, but still kinda morally wrong. But the thing is, I don't have the experience to question the taboos properly. So I'm going to follow them until the opportunity presents itself that causes me to seriously question them. >Give Alex a chance. His actions were not intended to hurt you, just >to protect you. I don't think 'protect' is the right word, but I am giving him another chance. Everyone makes mistakes and foolish assumptions about other people. I do it all the time. So I emailed this 'rock paper scissor' game to him yesterday and I'm going to leave it up to him to figure out exactly whether or not he wants to really be friends. I just really don't like it when people are less than truthful to me about important things and I think relationship status is one of them. Still, Alex seems like a nice guy. I hope he figures his confusions out. *~*~*~*~*~*~*~* A little something I've been thinking about.... When a character goes insane, that is the time when they become most appealing to me. I guess it's mostly Descartes influence, but what we perceive to be reality comes from our senses; sight, hearing, taste, smells, touch. But insanity blocks those senses and alters them, or so we think. The crazy person sees the monsters under the bed. He hears their growls and smells their foul breath. He can feel their scales brushing against his skin and he can taste the scent of their spewing bile every time he inhales through the mouth. But his perceptions are different from all our own perceptions, so thus he is wrong and insane. The question I pose to you all, then, that Descartes never really answered properly, is what makes you think that monsters don't exist? What makes you think that you aren't really wading in snakes right now, but you just don't possess the proper sensory equipment to realize that they're there. What if, only through damage to the brain or hallucinatory drugs or lack of sleep, we can see glimpses of what the world is truly like. I think, therefore I am, that's true. What reality am I truly in? What is this world really like, outside my limited perception? Maybe Keanu has it right and there really isn't any spoon. Or fork. Or Grand Central Station. Or Kentucky. You can never really trust your senses. Not when we know for certain that there are other things out there that we can't even comprehend with our limited equipment, like ultraviolet light, for example, that bees see to guide them to flowers. So are people really crazy? In A Beautiful Mind, was that guy really schizophrenic? He saw realistic people that weren't really there, but believed it was himself that was flawed when told that they weren't real. What if he was right? What if the world is a farce, a mask over actual reality in order to deceive or protect us all? What makes things real? Is anything really as it seems? Anything at all? ...But if I'm correct, then things aren't all bad. That way, Kentucky doesn't really exist, and we are all better off for it. *~*~*~*~*~*~* How Now, Brown Cow? Megan Christine Auffart *************************************** I never saw a Purple Cow, I never hope to see one; But I can tell you anyhow, I'd rather see than be one! --- Gelett Burgess (1866-1951) *************************************** http://www.angelfire.com/poetry/abulia/ / _____________________________________________________________ Sign up for FREE insane email from tshirthell.com's E-Mail Hell at http://www.tshirthell.com _____________________________________________________________ Promote your group and strengthen ties to your members with email@yourgroup.org by Everyone.net http://www.everyone.net/?btn=tag -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 12:20:06 -0400 From: "penny king" <pennyking@triad.rr.com> To: <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: "Tori Amos Writes Scarlet Letters, Draws Tour Map" at mtv.com Hi all - found this at mtv.com. Features a picture of Tori and tour dates! :) --- from mtv.com "Tori Amos Writes Scarlet Letters, Draws Tour Map" After walking in borrowed shoes on her last album, Strange Little Girls, Tori Amos has returned to wearing the pair that fits best on Scarlet's Walk. Amos' seventh album, due October 29, follows last year's covers LP with an introspective journey set along a cross-country road trip. The notion for such self-discovery sprouted while touring for Strange Little Girls in the weeks following September 11. "After the Twins went down, it was a time the masks were down for people, and people were asking questions that they haven't asked in a while," Amos said. "I was asking questions. So we hit the road, it was the most logical thing for us to do; I've been doing it for so long, it's where I find some of my answers. So we went out, and the road trip is part of my life, and the songs started coming." Amos sings from the perspective of Scarlet, and her trademark fiery mane leaves little doubt as to her protagonist's inspiration. Scarlet's Walk loosely traces Scarlet's path as she travels 3,000 miles to come to the aid of a friend, an aging porn star named Amber Waves. Her name is a metaphor for America, complete with its myths, misconception and sub-surface beauty. "There's nothing that I can seem to do to make Amber see herself how I see her," Amos explained, using the first person to refer to the album's character. "She's lost pieces of herself that she can't seem to reclaim. So the story takes off from there, and I meet people along the way. Events happen that make me question what I believe in and make me question what my country has been up to, and I start searching out answers: Who are the good guys? Because it doesn't seem like the ones that are calling themselves the good guys are doing the things I thought they were in the country's name." Beginning with her solo debut, 1992's Little Earthquakes, and continuing through her last album of original material, 1999's To Venus and Back, Amos has always been poetically confessional, never wavering from floating emotions, personal tragedy or romantic disasters atop her delicate yet progressive piano melodies. Covering the 12 tunes that comprise Strange Little Girls - which ranged from Neil Young's "Heart of Gold" to Slayer's "Raining Blood" to Eminem's "97' Bonnie & Clyde," in which Amos portrays the doomed wife locked in the trunk - gave her a fresh perspective on her own work. "It's like when you're an architect looking at another architect's plan," she said, "and you see how people solve problems that you might not solve in that way. That fascinates me. It was the same with sonic structure, crawling inside these songs, finding their secrets and how chord structures would resolve themselves. In a way, without knowing it, it rubs off on you. It was a fascinating experience for me, getting to know other people's girls." The first single from Scarlet's Walk, "A Sorta Fairytale," has surfaced on radio and a video, directed by Sanji (Mary J. Blige, Lauryn Hill) and featuring a cameo from actor Adrien Brody ("Liberty Heights," "Oxygen"), is expected in mid-October. The song appears early in the album's sequencing and provides proof that, unfortunately, we eventually awake from even the most pleasant dreams. "[Scarlet's] in love at that point," she explained, "and [the couple is] taking that classic trip up [Highway] 101 and [Highway] 1 on their way to San Francisco, and they cut off because they are having the trip of their life, and they go out West to the Southwest. And that's where the masks come down for them. Who they thought each other was is not who they really are. "It's one of those things where it's not about not having enough love for each other, it's just that you don't know why you can't make it work. You don't know how you are losing each other and you're sitting right in front of each other in plain view, but you can't seem to make it work. And that's why it's a 'sort of' fairy tale, because she wasn't a princess." Amos will begin a six-week tour, named On Scarlet's Walk, in support of the album. Singer/songwriter Howie Day, on the back of his debut album, Australia, will serve as opener. On Scarlet's Walk Tour dates, according to Epic Records: 11/7 - Tampa, FL @ Tampa Bay Performing Arts Center 11/9 - Melbourne, FL @ Maxwell C. King Center 11/10 - Atlanta, GA @ Atlanta Civic Center Theatre 11/12 - Fairfax, VA @ Patriot Center 11/13 - New York, NY @ TBA 11/15 - Camden, NJ @ Tweeter Center at the Waterfront 11/16 - Wallingford, CT @ Careerbuilder.com Oakdale Theatre 11/17 - Providence, RI @ Providence Performing Arts Center 11/19 - Lowell, MA @ Paul E. Tsongas Arena 11/20 - Montreal, QC @ Molson Centre 11/22 - Toronto, ON @ Sears Theatre at the Air Canada Centre 11/23 - Columbus, OH @ Palace Theatre 11/24 - Auburn Hills, MI @ Palace of Auburn Hills 11/26 - Cleveland, OH @ State Theatre 11/27 - Chicago, IL @ Chicago Theatre 11/30 - Minneapolis, MN @ Northrop Auditorium 12/1 - Milwaukee, WI @ Riverside Theatre 12/3 - St. Louis, MO @ Fox Theatre 12/5 - Denver, CO @ Magness Arena 12/7 - West Valley, UT @ E Center Ford Theatre 12/9 - Vancouver, BC @ Queen Elizabeth Theatre 12/10 - Seattle, WA @ KeyArena at Seattle Center 12/11 - Portland, OR @ Earle Chiles Center 12/13 - La Jolla, CA @ RIMAC Arena 12/14 - Las Vegas, NV @ The Joint 12/16 - Tempe, AZ @ Gammage Auditorium 12/17 - Universal City, CA @ Universal Ampitheatre 12/21 - San Francisco, CA @ Bill Graham Civic Auditorium -Joe D'Angelo http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1457694/20020920/amos_tori.jhtml?headlines= true o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o *** Subliminal Day Off digest *** To POST messages to this list: <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Can't figure out how to SUB, UNSUB, or CHANGE ADDRESSES? 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