RDTRN Archive - RDT Right Now #1795

RDT Right Now #1795

From: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:05:54 -0800
Subject: RDT Right Now #1795
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org

Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to: <rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org> with "unsubscribe" in the subject and body. o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 03 : Issue #1795 . o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o . o o . o o O "Thoughts right now... O o What will become of me, o o Become of her, become of we?" o . o o . O O O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O o . o o o Tori Amos, "Thoughts" In this issue: o-o-o-o-o-o-o san jose on ticketmaster [ noam tchotchke <woj@smoe.org> ] What do you propose we do? [ Roxanne Rieske <rokzane@dimensional ] 10th grade honor roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [ "Julie H." <julieh214@hotmail.com> ] Tori & War.. [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ] sleeping giants [ Brad Shultz <springhaze@comcast.net ] Protesters [ Brad Shultz <springhaze@comcast.net ] for U.S. residents [ Violet <fluffy@annihilist.com> ] unrealpolitik [ Mark Alexander <alexander750@earthl ] Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives: http://www.torithoughts.org/rdtrn/archives -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:43:18 -0500 From: noam tchotchke <woj@smoe.org> To: torinews@smoe.org, ustour@torithoughts.org, fiercest clams <precious-things@smoe.org>, rdtrn@torithoughts.org, toriphery@groups.msn.com, tori-amos@yahoogroups.com Subject: san jose on ticketmaster thank you robyn! >Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:39:47 -0800 (PST) >From: Robyn >To: violetandmike@torithoughts.org >Subject: Re: [ToriTour US] this week's tori presales > >The San Jose show has been posted on ticketmaster: >http://www.ticketmaster.com/event/1C003652E1A1546E?brand=&artistid=749136&major >catid=10001&minorcatid=60 -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:17:28 -0700 From: Roxanne Rieske <rokzane@dimensional.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: What do you propose we do? For those who are anti-war and in favor of peace with Iraq: What do you propose we do when diplomacy doesn't work? Have you even considered the thousands of Iraqis that have died under Sudaam's rule, deaths that were of his own doing? Most scholars of Middle Eastern studies agree that Sudaam is a menace to his own people. I've the read commentary and interviews with scholars that have spent better parts of their careers traveling and living in Iraq. Most of them agree that the Iraqis would welcome liberation from Sudaam. Yes, they don't want to see war brought on their country (who does?), but they don't want Sudaam as their ruler either. Globalization of this planet is a hard reality, like it or not. And we cannot afford to cubbyhole ourselves any longer. The mentality of, "We're Americans, and we shouldn't have to think about anybody else outside our own little world." just isn't going to work anymore. I don't think of myself as an American. I think of myself as a world citizen, and it makes me sick to see the atrocaties that Sudaam has inflicted on his people. It's gone on for far too long. Nobody likes war. Unfortuantely, sometimes it's the only way to get things done. And since the World Court outlawed assenation, it's either military action or heavy economic sanctions. Which do you think will have the better result? Roxanne -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sat, 08 Feb 2003 22:26:01 -0600 From: "Julie H." <julieh214@hotmail.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: 10th grade honor roll!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 2/8/03 10:21 pm I got a letter in the mail earlier tonight that said I was officially in the 10th grade honor roll for maintaining only As and Bs in my report card. In a way, I'm proud, and in a way I'm not. The thing is, I didn't try my hardest in pre-algebra, although I got an A in it, I still didn't try my hardest, I mean, the teacher favors me...I mean, I tried some days, but some days I just didn't. Well, I'm proud I guess. _________________________________________________________________ -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:52:27 -0500 From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Tori & War.. Just a little quickie here.. but has Tori expressed any opinions involving the tension around the impending war between the US and Iraq? I'd like to know what she's said if she has said anything.. It might help put a perspective on how we're all feeling about it, really.. Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ -- http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/368/ciara_blaze.html -- http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ -- http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ -- http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do. Not. Describe. Myself." ________________________________________________________________ Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:13:32 +0000 From: Brad Shultz <springhaze@comcast.net> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: sleeping giants Food for thought. In a few weeks I will be telling you I told you so. Ruth Holladay from www.indystar.com Peace marches have aroused backers of military action February 20, 2003 Is the sleeping giant beginning to awaken? That's the impression from this corner of the world, after last weekend's peace marches -- or adolescent temper tantrums, as some dubbed them. While 450 protesters of an Iraq invasion gathered in Indy, hundreds, maybe thousands, of Hoosier college students and activists headed to New York City and Washington, D.C. Other demonstrations were held around the globe, from Gary to Paris. But do not assume that silence from nonparticipants implies affirmation. Some -- that sleeping giant -- have begun to rouse and observe the so-called peace antics with growing concern. Now, they are speaking out -- not in noisy rallies, but in thoughtful observations tinged with history lessons. Where, they wondered, were these kindly, peace-loving people during the 12 years Saddam Hussein has been butchering civilians, repressing women, imprisoning dissenters and storing up ghastly tools of annihilation? This hypocrisy was noted locally by City-County Councilwoman Beulah Coughenour, who fired off an e-mail Sunday with the text of the Dec. 16, 1998, speech by President Bill Clinton. For those with short memories, Clinton announced that night that he had launched an attack on Iraq. (Of course, he was having a little problem then with a young woman and a blue dress, so perhaps his military tactic was somewhat diversionary). Still, he was forceful, speaking of standing strong against the "enemies of peace" and justifying our military's strike. "Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and the world. Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons." Coughenour, a 62-year-old Southside Republican with 27 years of government service, found herself marveling at this. "In light of all the heckling Bush is getting, here we had Clinton saying the same thing." Then, she had an even more alarming thought. "I wonder at how people can be so naive. How can they support a man (Hussein) who is so perverted?" Call it mirror-imaging. Many Americans assume that everyone in the world is as decent as we are. But don't put retired Marine Corps Gunnery Sgt. Philip L. Fowler in that camp. A programmer analyst, Fowler, 45, served from 1978 to 1980 at the U.S. Embassy in Jordan. His 21-year-old son, Joshua Fowler, is in England with the Air Force, awaiting orders. His observation? "This guy, Saddam, is Hitler Part II. Does he have to slaughter millions before we get the message?" As for the demonstrators: "They only serve to aid the terrorists by stirring up division. They would be better off helping the poor and needy in this country." Don Warnick, 61, of Knightstown, is an amateur historian who also frets about the protesters. "I feel there is a definite conspiracy, especially on the college campuses, to make sure our kids do not have the facts big-time." And one of those facts is this, courtesy of the office of Sen. Richard Lugar, R-Ind. "This (problem with Hussein) did not just come about a year ago, with the 'axis of evil' State of the Union speech," Lugar spokesman Andy Fisher said. "Saddam has been in defiance of the world for 12 years now, since the Gulf War." So, to quote Fowler, "Let's wake up and smell the toast burning, ferpeetzsake." -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:15:57 +0000 From: Brad Shultz <springhaze@comcast.net> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: Protesters You folks need some heartland learnin' Tim Swarens from www.indystar.com Protesters are just as wrong now as they were then February 20, 2003 It was the evening of Sept. 11, and waves of war had begun to crash upon the American shore. In the White House, the president was addressing an anxious nation. His purpose was twofold: to begin preparing the American public for the impending fight and to warn America's enemies that further aggression would not be tolerated. "When you see a rattlesnake poised to strike, you do not wait until he has struck before you crush him," the president said. George W. Bush in 2001? No, Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1941. Three months later, with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, the United States was indeed dragged into war. But until the day of infamy, Roosevelt had been forced to contend with American isolationists determined to seek peace at any price. The peace brigades of that day despised the president's rhetoric and resisted his efforts to aid the British, who were by that time standing alone in the West in the fight against fascism. The United States faces a similar threat today. Terrorist networks and the nations that support them are attempting to kill our people and destroy our economy. They want to drive American interests out of the Middle East and parts of Africa and Asia. They want us to abandon Israel in its fight for survival. And they want to impose without challenge a radical form of Islam on millions of unwilling subjects. As in Roosevelt's time, war protesters are once again arguing that appeasement will work, the threat isn't significant enough to require action and America itself is to blame for its enemies' aggression. They are just as wrong now as they were then. Interestingly, three of the most compelling rebuttals to war protesters have originated in recent days from Great Britain. Prime Minister Tony Blair, battered in the polls because of his support for the United States, confronted the issues in a remarkable speech on Saturday. "I rejoice that we live in a country where peaceful protest is a natural part of our democratic process," Blair said. "But I ask the marchers to understand this. I do not seek unpopularity as a badge of honor. But sometimes it is the price of leadership. And the cost of conviction. "But as you watch your TV pictures of the march, ponder this: If there are 500,000 on that march, that is still less than the number of people whose deaths Saddam has been responsible for. If there are one million, that is still less than the number of people who died in the wars he started." The second rebuttal came from David Aaronvitch, a longtime activist and peace protester, who has nonetheless refused to enlist in the current marches. His damning critique of the movement was published Tuesday in the British newspaper The Guardian. Addressing protesters, he wrote, "I wanted to ask whether, among your hundreds of thousands, the absences bothered you? The Kurds, the Iraqis -- of whom there are many thousands in this country -- where were they? Why were they not there? "Did some of the slogans bother you? Do you really believe that this parroted 'war about oil' stuff is true? If so, what were the interventions in oil-less Kosovo, Bosnia and Afghanistan about? What did you feel about the marchers wearing stickers bearing the Israeli flag and the words 'the fascist state'? Did you say to yourself, 'Actually, there's only one fascist state in this equation, and it's the one we're effectively marching to save'? "Finally, what are you going to do when you are told -- as one day you will be -- that while you were demonstrating against an allied invasion, and being applauded by friends and Iraqi officials, many of the people of Iraq were hoping, hope against hope, that no one was listening to you?" Then there are the words of Rania Kashi, an exiled Iraqi living in London. Blair read excerpts of her message, addressed to protesters, on Saturday. "You may feel that America is trying to blind you from seeing the truth about their real reasons for an invasion. I must argue that in fact, you are still blind to the bigger truths in Iraq," Kashi wrote. "Why is it now that you deem it appropriate to voice your disillusions with America's policy in Iraq, when it is right now that the Iraqi people are being given real hope, however slight and however precarious, that they can live in an Iraq that is free of its horrors?" Why, indeed? -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:50:38 -0800 From: Violet <fluffy@annihilist.com> To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org Subject: for U.S. residents Originally I wasn't planning to post about this here, but it is so close to my heart that I changed my mind. It's so important to me. There is currently a hideous case of animal cruelty in New York. The District Attorney in charge of the case, Thomas Spota, is seeking felony charges and if you're a U.S. resident, you can help. First, read the news report: http://www.newsday.com/mynews/ny-licujo133129194feb13.story A web-based petition supporting the DA's request of felony charges is being collected now (February, 2003). While e-mail petitions are worthless, web-based petitions prevent duplicate signatures and can be printed out and mailed to the appropriate party. Adding your name takes only a minute. (The petition is limited to U.S. residents.) http://www.PetitionOnline.com/hare1213/petition.html Faxes are even more critical, because the sentencing will be happening very soon. Mr. Spota will be using *ALL* letters and faxes received to build his case. Each person who writes is making a difference. Even a few sentences will do. Faxes: 631-853-5117 US Mail only: Thomas J. Spota Suffolk County District Attorney PO Box 6100 Hauppauge NY 11788-0099 Other delivery services and telegrams: Thomas J. Spota Suffolk County District Attorney Building 77 North County Complex Veterans Memorial Highway Hauppauge NY 11788 If you cannot fax or mail a letter (or even if you can), be sure to sign the petition. Another link containing information on the case: http://www.rabbit.org/links/sections/cruelty_case.html Again, I want to stress that if you do wish to help, you must act quickly. I hope everyone who cares about animals will help. Violet xoxox -o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o [top] Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 02:09:00 -0600 From: Mark Alexander <alexander750@earthlink.net> To: "that redhead with the piano" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Subject: unrealpolitik Here's a koan for you Zen types out there: If we attack Iraq, thousands--perhaps millions--of Iraqi (and Israeli, Arab, Kuwaiti, etc.) civilians will die. The problem is, if we *don't* attack Iraq, thousands--perhaps millions--of Iraqi (and Israeli, Arab, Kuwaiti, etc.) civilians will die. Iraq is our mess; although its borders correspond more or less to those of historic Mesopotamia (Babylon, Sumer, et al.), it, like Israel, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Palestine, is essentially an Anglo-American invention, carved out of the bits left behind by the Ottoman Empire after World War I. Interestingly enough, the original plans included an independent Kurdistan, but that idea was shelved in the early 1920s, perhaps as an attempt to curb Soviet expansion in the area. The Hashemite monarchy was installed by the British. That same monarchy was deposed in 1958 by American meddling to secure--you guessed it--oil. In the resulting chaos the nationalist Baath regime seized power; ten years later, its candidate, one Saddam Hussein (no relation), was voted in. For the next twenty years, on and off, he was supported by us, both because of oil and because he was seen as hostile to the Soviets, no small matter when those Soviets were in Afghanistan and Ayatollah Khomeini was screaming for jihad on both sides. (Oh, and lest we forget, there was that little matter about Nicaragua. But I digress.) During this time Saddam behaved much like any other Arab monarch, pouring oil wealth into massive public works projects, occasionally railing against Israel, consolidating his grip on his citizens' minds and lives--and building a military. It was only when he decided to attack Kuwait that he turned from a hitherto obscure ally to a would-be Arab Hitler in American status reality, aided by our ever-compliant "liberal" (ha ha ha) media. (It was certainly good for ratings.) Iraq is our mess. It's time to clean it up. Or is it? Meanwhile, Osama...It now appears we may well have let him, and a good bit of al-Qaeda's infrastructure, go in order to save Pakistani intelligence operatives in the region. (Can you say "Operation Paperclip"? I knew you could.) This while we were busy seeing how many times we could get dead Afghans to bounce. This while Pakistan and India were preparing to nuke each other over Kashmir (again). This, it's now believed, while Pakistan was sending technical aid, and even complete weapons ("just add plutonium"), to... ...North Korea. Holy fucking shit. You can do the math from here. Heinlein's Razor, as it's generally known, is a rebuke to conspiracy buffs: "Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity." It seems there's plenty of both coming out of the intelligence, diplomatic, and military communities as of late: this is, after all, the sort of thing that happens when one "gets involved in a land war in Asia." But this isn't Vietnam. September 11 was not an "intelligence failure." The intelligence had been gathered. The analysis had been done. The threat was known. And...some damn fool dropped the ball, and three planes hit their targets, and 3,000 people died. And because of it, we risk returning to the bad old days of the Red Scare, only this time it's terrorists instead of communists we see under the bed. (It must be added that the aforementioned intelligence had been gathered *before* any of this had been proposed, let alone implemented. Why not a War on Bureaucratic Incompetence?) And because of it, we kill tens of thousands while the bad guys get away. And because of it, we're now contemplating some grandiose scheme to make the Middle East safe for democracy. Nice idea, but it'll be like winning the Powerball: if you lose that, you've only lost a buck, but lose this lottery and Armageddon will be the likely result. And because of it, we get fed vague be-very-afraid "orange threats" and "duct (tape) and cover" nonsense, which doubtless the esteemed Mr. Shultz remembers from childhood. I do. Welcome to Wonderland, Alice. Estraven. o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o *** "Inhumanity Is Caught From Man, From Smiling Man." -- Edward Young digest *** To POST messages to this list: <rdtrn@torithoughts.org> Can't figure out how to SUB, UNSUB, or CHANGE ADDRESSES? Send a message to <rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org> with "help" as the subject. Digest PROBLEMS or QUESTIONS? Contact: <admin@torithoughts.org> Want your BIRTHDAY announced on RDTRN in 2002? 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( ` )_ (_ _(_ ,) {o: \:.\ / \ ( ) `) | {O:' \:.-'_.-\_)____ (_ (_ . _) _) \ _ / {o:. /`~('-./-----.\ -= (_) =- }o: // /| `/\ ( ) / \ {O:'// /-' /\/\ ( ` ) . ) | }o-/( <___ \'/ /\/\/\ (_, _( ,_)_) /o./ ;--._)====* -\/\/\/ `"`\ \ /.\ `""` \ \ \ \ wWWWw wWWWw /`\ ) vVVVv (___) wWWWw (___) vVVVv |/| | vVVVv (___) ~O~ (___) vVVVv ~H~ (___) vVVVv _// \| (___) ~H~ \| ~U~ (___) |/ ~T~ (___) | / || \~T~/ \| \ |/ \| / \~G~/ \| \ |/ \~S~/ |/ / | \\|// \\|// \\|// \\|/// \\|// \\|// \\\|/// \\|// ` `\| ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ` thanks for visiting this pretty garden

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