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From:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date:
Sat, 30 Jun 2001 23:21:13 -0700
Subject:
RDT Right Now #1345
To:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to:
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with "unsubscribe" in the subject and body.
o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 01 : Issue #1345
.
o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o
. o o .
o o
O "Thoughts right now... O
o What will become of me, o
o Become of her, become of we?" o
. o o .
O O
O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O
o .
o
o
o
Tori Amos, "Thoughts"
In this issue:
o-o-o-o-o-o-o
cost of McVeigh's trial [ violet@torithoughts.org ]
neil gaiman notes [ "Beth Mildfelt" <santalum@hotmail.c ]
neil gaiman notes [ "Beth Mildfelt" <santalum@hotmail.c ]
this is not a lecture! [ Lisa Leo <lisal@turningpoint.org.au ]
little light, shining [ violet@torithoughts.org ]
meditation [ "Daniel Stapleton" <luceluna16@hotm ]
Rock on, Beth! [ "Megan Atkinson" <megansara@bigplan ]
a minute to say hi [ "Juan Manuel Torreblanca" <cheefoos ]
When the manuscript you are editing [ "Beth Coulter" <betheqt@voicenet.co ]
all you other Dick Cheneys just be i [ OMBO@aol.com ]
fields of gold [ migennes@juno.com ]
you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm n [ violet@torithoughts.org ]
NEW ALBUM!! [ Emmanuel Caballero <spacedog@prodig ]
Time [ "Succubus Barbie" <delirium1479@hot ]
This, that and some other stuff..... [ "Kevin Roscoe" <krmalkavian@hotmail ]
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
Really Deep Quote:
none today
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives:
http://www.torithoughts.org/rdtrn/archives
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Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 12:41:50 -0700
From: violet@torithoughts.org
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: cost of McVeigh's trial
In case anyone's interested:
McVeigh's Bombing Trial Cost $13.8 Million
DENVER (Reuters) - Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh (news -
web sites)'s 1997 trial in Denver cost U.S. taxpayers $13.8
million, according to figures released on Friday by U.S. District
Judge Richard Matsch who presided over the trial.
McVeigh was executed on June 11 in a federal prison in Terre
Haute, Indiana for the 1995 bombing of the Alfred P. Murrah
federal building (news - web sites) that killed 168 people and
injured hundreds others.
The figure, which includes $6.7 million for 19 lawyers, only
covers expenses until Aug. 14, 1997, the day McVeigh was
sentenced to die.
In cases where defendants cannot afford to pay for their own
defense, the U.S. taxpayer picks up the tab.
Costs for support staff for the attorneys, housing and security
came to nearly $1.5 million and investigators were paid nearly $2
million.
A little more than $3 million was paid to experts who testified
in the trial on McVeigh's behalf.
Travel expenses added up to $541,885, although some of that
expense also covered work done for McVeigh's former army buddy
and co-defendant Terry Nichols who was tried separately and
sentenced to life in prison for his role.
The court expects to release figures on the cost after the
sentencing, but no date has been set for that, Matsch's
spokesman, James Manspeaker said.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010629/ts/crime_mcveigh_dc_1.html
Violet
xox
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Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:19:16 +1000
From: "Beth Mildfelt" <santalum@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: neil gaiman notes
i don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, if they have i must have
skimmed past it. i just got my copy of neil gaiman's American Gods in the
mail (the bookstore here doesn't carry that, so i had to order from amazon),
and was reading the acknowledgments and found these two interesting bits:
"Mrs. Hawley lent me her Florida house to write in, and all I had to do in
return was scare away the vultures. She lent me her Irish house to finish
it in and cautioned me not to scare away all the ghosts. My thanks to her
and Mr. Hawley for all their kindness and generosity."
also, a bit further on:
"Anna Sunshine Ison unearthed a bunch of stuff for me on the west coast
Japanese internment camps, which will have to wait for another book to be
written, for it never quite fitted into this one."
i've only posted a handful of times, but i've been here enough years to miss
the lovely postings of miss anna sunshine. and i'd bet there will be a few
people reading the acknowledgments, scratching thier heads wondering who
mrs. hawley is.
:)
--beth
_________________________________________________________________________
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 14:19:10 +1000
From: "Beth Mildfelt" <santalum@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: neil gaiman notes
i don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, if they have i must have
skimmed past it. i just got my copy of neil gaiman's American Gods in the
mail (the bookstore here doesn't carry that, so i had to order from amazon),
and was reading the acknowledgments and found these two interesting bits:
"Mrs. Hawley lent me her Florida house to write in, and all I had to do in
return was scare away the vultures. She lent me her Irish house to finish
it in and cautioned me not to scare away all the ghosts. My thanks to her
and Mr. Hawley for all their kindness and generosity."
also, a bit further on:
"Anna Sunshine Ison unearthed a bunch of stuff for me on the west coast
Japanese internment camps, which will have to wait for another book to be
written, for it never quite fitted into this one."
i've only posted a handful of times, but i've been here enough years to miss
the lovely postings of miss anna sunshine. and i'd bet there will be a few
people reading the acknowledgments, scratching thier heads wondering who
mrs. hawley is.
:)
--beth
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
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Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 17:47:52 +1000
From: Lisa Leo <lisal@turningpoint.org.au>
To: "'rdtrn@torithoughts.org'" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: this is not a lecture!
Howdy all
Been wanting to jump in to the debates for a while but so much has been
happening lately (moving house, friends coming to stay from interstate,
work being intense) ...and I have been just plain lazy.
Re Ecstasy: (some of these points may already have been made...got a
few digests to catch up on... so apologies in advance)
Well, the digest with Emmanuel's original post seems to have been
misplaced by my computer before I got to it, so I dont know the context
in which it was written. I've just been trying to follow the threads in
the latest digests. I think that E's can be addictive. Addiction (or
dependence, or harmful use, whatever terminology you use) is not just a
physiological issue, IMHO any drug which alters consciousness can become
psychologically addictive. The way the APA (american psychiatric
association) classifies 'substance dependence' is " a cluster of
cognitive, behavioural and physiological symptoms." I have known
friends who have developed significant tolerance to ecstasy after using
them on a regular basis (taking 5 pills at once to get high), and
tolerance is certainly one aspect of physical dependence. And I work
with people who use pills (and other illegal and legal drugs) to deal
with their problems, or to overcome the depression that results from
regular use, or to fit in to the clubbing scene... or whatever the
reason. Some people can use E's and not have too many problems with
them but for others this is not the case.
I certainly dont want to come across as disapproving of anyone who uses
or might want to use, since I myself have experimented. But like other
people on this mailing list have been saying - it is really important to
have some knowlege of the drug that you are going to experiment with -
side effects, signs of overdose, interaction with other drugs (good
point Dan about e's and SSRIs). One thing is that you cant always be
sure what exactly is in an ecstasy pill - it could be MDMA, or it could
have other chemicals like PMA or ketamine, or speed or smack or
whatever. I had a bad experience once after taking a dodgy pill, for
the next few days I kept fainting, which was really scary, and made me
decide that it wasnt worth it anymore. So at the risk of sounding
like someone's mother - please use safely if you are going to use :-)
Violet: I found your post with the details about the cost of the death
penalty really interesting, well written and well thought out. I'd
like to make some comments, but I am about to finish work so maybe next
time (I'm being lazy girl again).
Cheefooska Juan: thanks for the welcome message :-) I bought Amnesiac
recently too. Dont like it as much as Kid A, but maybe it will grow on
me. 'Living in a glasshouse' goes off.
Does anyone on this list like jazz?
ciao,
Lisa
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 03:09:05 -0700
From: violet@torithoughts.org
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: little light, shining
So Kim and I went to a brew pub in Berkeley tonight. I told him he
owed me BIG TIME because I finally got the leopard-print sheets he'd
been nagging me to get for a while. I can't tell you how much I hate
them. So he owed me.
So there we were, when all of a sudden it occured to me that the other
tables had candles and ours didn't. They didn't just have candles,
but they had candles in the sorts of holders that are made from little
squares of different-colored glass so that they look like stained
glass windows. They were pretty. So I got upset that we didn't have
one.
I suppose I should mention at this point that I do this just about
everywhere we go where there are candles. If we get one, it has to be
in the middle of the table, not to the side. If we don't, I try to
find another unoccupied table to "steal" one from. If our candle
isn't lit, I go nuts trying to get it lit (or find another one that
is). The last time I was at this same pub with Heather and Holly,
they laughed as I snagged the lit candle from the table next to us and
replaced it with our wickless candle. (They knew the routine from the
time before when we had also gotten a defective candle and they had to
help me hunt for a good one.) I am not joking about this being very
important to me. I don't know why, really.
Anyway, so tonight I was upset that we were candleless and I told Kim
that I had actually been considering starting to take my own candles
to places with me. He said he thought that was an interesting idea.
I said, "You don't think it would be rude?" and he said, "No, I don't
think it's rude. Eccentric, but not rude."
So I said, "You know ... maybe I should write a book on how to be
eccentric."
He said, "You could fill a book."
So I said, "Really? You think I'm eccentric?"
He says, "Don't you?"
I said, "I'm not sure. I'm quirky, yes, but I don't know about
eccentric. What things do I do that are eccentric."
At this point, he gave me the most priceless look, as if to say, "Oh,
puh-leez, come on!" but instead he said, "Like I said, you'd have no
trouble writing a book."
Then the guy sitting at the table next to us -- a table WITH A CANDLE
-- got up and left and I snatched it quick. "Ooh, ooh, ooh!!! Got
one! I feel so much better!"
And I cleared a place in the middle of the table, put the candle there
and turned it until the light was shining through the prettiest part
(which to me was through three pieces of glass -- one yellow, one
orange, and one red), and sighed a happy sigh.
Kim just shook his head.
Oh, earlier tonight, I watched the sunset from the middle of a busy
parking lot. I was on my way to Mervyn's and when I got out of my
car, the sky was on fire. It was one of those amazing sunsets where
the sun is neon orange and the clouds are streaked across the sky,
turning flaming crimson underneath and deep purple above, while the
sky itself is a brilliant turquoise blue. So I stopped and watched.
Cars were coming and going. People were pulling up and going inside.
Others were schlepping bags and kids out to the car. And I was in the
middle of it all, just standing there, staring. All I could think was
that all these people were missing it. There will be other sunsets,
but there would never again be THIS sunset. And they were missing it.
It all seemed very strange, as I was standing there, to notice that
no one else was paying any attention. They were oblivious. One man
did walk by and said to the woman he was with, "My god, that sunset is
gorgeous! Would you look at that!" but she just glanced in its general
direction and then said, "...And we need to get curtains for the
dining room, because..." I never did hear the rest of what she said
as they got out of earshot. It seemed so tragic. I considered
screaming at everyone, "Look at the sky, you're missing it!" but opted
not to. Oh, well.
And then later as Kim and I were walking to the car after the beer
thing, I made him look at the moon. 'Cause there will be other moons,
but there will never again be THIS moon. ;)
It was so nice.
Violet
xoxox
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 20:31:40 +1000
From: "Daniel Stapleton" <luceluna16@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: meditation
mmmm... feel like writing tonight.
um - first. Emmanuel said some stuff about meditation. i think it's
intriguing that some forms of meditation can have the same potential effects
as drugs. For example, deep meditation frees one from conscious thought,
allowing the mind to exist on a more primal level. i've been getting into
stuff like this recently - starting tai chi soon and working on meditation.
meditating is a fascinating art form - Emmanuel brought up the idea of
orgasms from breathing... and i think that example (tantric sex if i'm not
mistaken) is good in showing how disciplined meditation is. to be able to
breath to enhance sexual pleasure (i know a bit about this and it's not all
shit, trust me LOL) requires so much discipline. the difference between
meditation and drugs is that you have to work to alter your mind with
meditation, but when you do it's pure and natural, resulting in a much more
satisfying 'trip.'
that said, i've been interested by some of the drug comments. for example,
the idea of using drugs for witchcraft. perhaps the combination of
meditation and drugs is what has spawned movements such as witchcraft over
the millenia? we know that many cultures use hallucinagens in various ways,
and a deep spirituality is attached to them. combining physical discipline
and chemicals could be stronger than any trip.
how does a person experience altered states of being, then? drugs?
mediation? both? who uses one or both of these, and what results do y'all
have?
next... Babybabyangel,
say it loud and proud - FUCK OFF! teehee
ah all my writing impulses have left me now... over and out.
dan
_________________________________________________________________________
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 04:52:15 -0600 (MDT)
From: "Megan Atkinson" <megansara@bigplanet.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: Rock on, Beth!
I totally agree with Beth 100%. That has to be one of the best points I've
heard in all my life. The one about people being self-preservationists. Yes,
if you value life so much, you wouldn't take someone else's and, depending on
the situation, if you do, you do not deserve to preside in the same worls as
those of us who truly value life.
Megan
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 09:24:16 -0500
From: "Juan Manuel Torreblanca" <cheefooska@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: a minute to say hi
driving
rain coming down just barely more than a breeze
speckles
the tiniest
my very own starry sky the windshield
me the naughty god
on goes the wiper
the lonely street comes back
this old car
my eyes want sleep
cold
where does this emptiness come from?
the radio off
I'd rather sing to myself
an advantage to loneliness
until my throat's sore
that can't be too good
if only bathroom acoustics weren't exclusive
my forearms' a little tired
had forgotten what a challenge the piano is
swollen
afraid
my test just a couple of days away
what?
a couple of days away!
fingers feel like clumsy popsicles
but I'm hopeful
hoping for luck
wishing... praying?
(practice = the best prayer)
that coffee was good
my tummy doesn't agree
a friday afternoon
my gray sky
my crowded streets
my Coyoacan
solace
(procrastination, yes, how dare I? I don't know)
right now = home alone
in bed it's late
feeling dirty
laugh it off
finding my lust a little rusty
I'm never happy, am I?
...
who am I?
beautiful music appeases the impossibility to answer
DOVES = Lost Souls
tomorrow = loads of piano ( I'm glad )
TIGER BALM for my arms hands ready
hmmm... I love the smell.
cheefooska juan
(we can all thank god I slept over this, because the editing I did just now,
this morning, right before I leave for a whole day of struggling for my
skills in the piano to come back, proves us all in luck... hugs)
_________________________________________________________________________
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:13:37 -0400
From: "Beth Coulter" <betheqt@voicenet.com>
To: "RDT Right Now" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: When the manuscript you are editing comes up "Read Only"...
...you can walk away or trash the laptop. I'm Thinking! I'm Thinking! OK,
I won't trash the laptop. urg. Is it the end of June yet? That's my
deadline. (if it is indeed the end of June, don't tell me. I'm sure I'll
figure it out when the fireworks start)
So a final thought on the whole DP thing: After $14 million spent on the
defense alone for McBomber, I think we can call moot the argument what is
more expensive, death or life imprisonment.
Also, I think the argument For the death penalty involves only those
criminals who have committed heinous crimes and show no remorse. Those are
the types for whom there is no rehab. Let us not confuse druggies and petty
thieves in the debate about killers.
Let me clarify how I think all this works. I sent Brian a private email
saying I liked his analogy of how animals will outcast or destroy "bad"
animals. Everyone who dissents thinks that we should be "better" than that.
But we as the human animal must obey this instinct. Life for us and every
other living creature on earth (I'm sticking with the third rock here, I
can't analyze ET at this point) consists of having a social contract. This
is something that is not legislated, nor taught, nor preached into
existence. The dinosaurs had a social contract, the cavemen did. Dogs have
a social contract, as do birds. We all know that if one of our own goes bad
and behaves in such a way that the species is endangered, that bad one must
be put out where they cannot harm anymore. Sometimes driving it out to the
wilderness will suffice. But in crowded, heavily populated areas, death is
the only option to ensure the safety of all. This is something that we are
all born with, this idea of a social contract.
Timmy McBomber broke that social contract. Not because he learned it in the
army. Not because he was righteously enraged. He broke it because
something in him went bad. Real bad. There is nowhere we could have sent
him where he wouldn't endanger others. Even in prison, his poison affected
everyone. Because these acts are instinctually abhorrent to all (murder of
innocents), we must obey that instinct to drive the poison away. To accept
and allow such acts to be intellectualized into meaninglessness creates rips
in the fabric of society. Not because of the act itself, but because of the
indifferent attitude of the person.
The woman in Texas who killed her children broke the social contract but
immediately felt remorse. I don't care her reasons for doing it because
sickness is sickness. But she accepted she was sick and wrong and regretted
immensely her actions. The drug addict who killed the elderly grocery store
owner for drug money may very well feel remorse once they sober up enough to
realize they broke the social contract. If he doesn't, then he deserves the
same fate as his victim.
It's not about the ACT itself. It's about what is behind the act and the
feelings afterwards. Timmy went to his death feeling victorious. That
should in and of itself make everyone's stomach turn. That strange gripping
sensation around your heart? That's your body acknowledging the truth of
social contracts. Debate the rest all you want, but make sure you keep the
apples with the apples and the assholes with the assholes. There are some
soulless individuals who cannot be rehabilitated. They got so far lost in
themselves they turned into sociopaths and won't accept or appreciate the
help.
Now, may I add some Tori content? I hear through the grapevine that the
tour will start off with the "girl and her piano" and pick up the band later
on. Sounds like an extended tour to me. Maybe she'll finally end up in Oz.
Although I think Korea might be a bit much to hope for. ;) But most of us
should get a chance.
OK, now to fight Word and make it release my manuscript so I can finish the
fucking thing. Good thing I want to Talk for a living. I can't deal with
writing on a deadline. It just kills the joy for me. Plus, I can talk
anytime. I have to be in the mood for writing.
Fairy Blessings,
Bethey
I'm OK when Everything's not OK
cause it's the Fairies Revenge they say
And I have always been a Fairy.
www.bethcoulter.com
PS if I arrange the Torifest for Sunday Aug. 26, anyone be interested? And
how many Toriphiles would want to see a first rate production of Godspell,
do you think? My daughter thinks everyone would, but I really doubt that
many would be into theatre, especially *that* production. Everyone's
thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Can you tell I'm tired of the whole DP thing?
Now I'm really gone.
bethey
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Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 15:27:09 EDT
From: OMBO@aol.com
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: all you other Dick Cheneys just be imitatin'
Actually, this post has little to do with the vice president specifically. I
just thought the subject line was funny. :-)
But this does start with observations about the Cheney heart condition story.
First, as a side note, that thingy that he had put in his chest - a
mini-defibrillator that will shock his heart back into rhythm if it starts to
get irregular - is something I know well. My dad had one of those things in
his chest for the last year of his life. One time, I was there with him while
it was giving him the shocks (what the doctors call "giving therapy"). And
they also monitor heart rhythms and store the information inside a computer
chip, where it can be read later by an outside monitor (what they call
"interrogating" the device). Really a cool little invention. As little as I
care for Cheney's politics, I hope that the thing helps him live more
comfortably with his condition.
Of course, I shouldn't even need to say that; it should just be assumed that
I wish a fellow human being well, despite our ideological differences. Which
brings me to my main topic. I watched an episode of Crossfire yesterday where
the conservatives were saying that everything was just fine, and the
"liberals" (actually, more moderate liberals - you won't find many Naderesque
progressives on CNN) were, carefully of course, suggesting that things were
not all that rosy. Now, mind you, either side could have been right. Some
people can go on and live perfectly normal lives with implanted
defibrillators, and others cannot. (My dad was in the latter category; he had
to slow down even more than he had already. Of course, he had other
concurrent health problems.)
But here's the thing. Neither side was really operating off of any medical
information. Each side was adopting the position that was the most suited to
their political ideology. Essentially, what they were doing was putting
partisan political spin on a man's heart condition. Something that, of
course, the person with the heart condition himself was also doing by calling
a press conference and asserting that everything was just fine.
This is madness, folks. Sheer fucking madness.
When exactly was it that political ideology became so important that we see
everything through lenses constructed out of it? When did we become
cliche-spouting automotons who seem to get every response to every given
issue out of a Conservative or Liberal (or even Moderate) handbook? When did
we lose the ability to think outside the box, to think for ourselves?
Personally, I think ideology is the enemy. To be sure, this is especially
true of traditional conservatism and liberalism, two outdated and petrified
ideologies that dominate the national discourse to the extent that other ways
of thinking are choked out like weeds choking out flowers. (And which seem to
operate chiefly as reactions to each other, continuously arguing in perverse
symbiosis.) But sadly, it's also true of other ideologies. Few people really
seem to want to think for themselves; they'd apparently rather read from a
script.
I say its time to throw away the scripts. Improvise. Think for ourselves.
Debate, and listen to the other side, and don't be afraid to modify or
clarify our opinions. And for Chrissakes, realize that *no* political opinion
is so important that we should shape our feelings about a person's heart
disease to fit it.
I want to close with two cool things said in the last digest, both said in
response to Kevin's response to Violet's post about the costs of the death
penalty. First, Yael:
<< I think it is important to be a skeptic in the sense that one should learn
about the source. So I agree with your inclination here. But I wanted to
add that just because someone makes a strong case does not mean that the
person is skewing the information, being dishonest or one-sided. >>
And, Violet herself:
<< Question. Always question. And seek out your OWN answers. >>
And just let me add that one of the most important persons to question is
yourself. Do NOT let your philosophy harden into a petrified ideology. This
does not seem to be in our natures, and indeed, I have as much problem doing
it as anyone (although I always do my best to look beyond the traditional
forms of conservatism and liberalism, I definitely can be very close-minded).
But I think doing so is essential to moving our society forward.
Rant mode off. :-)
Steve the Sweet Fat Man
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 12:47:34 -0700
From: migennes@juno.com
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: fields of gold
Emerging from lurkdom to respond to Bethany's response to Jason on the
"Fields of Gold" cover...
I have a version by Mary Black that is also good. It's a "bonus track"
on _Speaking With the Angel_. You can hear a clip at CD Universe through
this link:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1016084&style=music&frm=lk_
edgm
You can hear the Eva Cassidy version here:
http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=1187962&cart=106279177&styl
e=music
And damn if I didn't just put the CD in and it skips. (Eva's, not
Mary's.)
migennes
Not all who wander are lost.
- Tolkien
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 16:35:17 -0700
From: violet@torithoughts.org
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: you may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
Beth wrote:
>Violet wrote:
>> You said, "Remember they've just taken away the thing you cherished
>> the most." I assume you mean life. If life was the thing I cherished
>> the MOST, then I would cherish it across the board, wouldn't I? I
>> would cherish all life.
>
>I don't necessarily think so. Some people are truly compassionate and value
>all life. Some people are just self-preservationist and value their OWN
>lives above all others.
True. But [I thought] Brian was asking what *I* would do. (Not me,
specifically, but he asked "what would you do?" rather than "what do
you think other people might do?" If I was asked what I think other
people would do, my answer would be very different. But for myself,
I know what I would do.
Anyway...
Let me change the emphasis ... *I* would cherish all life. (Better?)
Besides, even if I was a self-preservationist, if I was already dead
self-preservation would be sort of pointless wouldn't it? ;) But I
do know what you mean about people looking out for Number One.
It's like the time Kim and I were at the scene of a shooting and I ran
over and covered the guy with my sweater and held his hand and talked
to him and tried to keep him conscious but Kim kept saying, "Come on,
we should go now." This upset me immensely. He kept saying that we
were in the way, but I knew it was something more ... that he didn't
want to get involved and was concerned the shooter might come back.
Then later, he told me that he thought it was really something the way
I cared so much and he said that most people wouldn't go out of their
way to help other people like that. It freaked me out that someone
could even say something like that, because I don't want to live in
that world. But I'm sure it's true. I just don't want it to be.
[BTW, the story does not have a happy ending. David was murdered and it
is still a traumatic memory for me. It happened during a Winter Solstice
celebration at his club. I've not been able to go back since. Maybe
one day. http://burn.ucsd.edu/~resist/sling/57/nadel.htm ]
Violet
xoxox
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 19:31:01 -0500
From: Emmanuel Caballero <spacedog@prodigy.net.mx>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: NEW ALBUM!!
For anyone who hasnt checked out the Dent lately, they have an LA Times
article where the new Tori album described.
It definitely came as a surprise to me.
The new album is an album of covers in a sort of way... She's taking songs
written and performed by men and taking a spin on them, although not
changing them drastically.
It is definitely a very eclectiv collection, from Velvel Underground,
Depeche Mode, Slayer, Neil Young and ( drumrolls ) .... Eminem!!!!!
Yes ladies and gentlemen, you heard right... tori is covering eminem... and
not just any song. Its "97 Bonnie & Clyde", the song about the guy killing
his wife in front of their baby.
I wont judge this right now, I still have to digest the news which IS
shocking, just as Neil Gaiman described. I hope its as good as he says it is
too.
What do all of you think about this??????
e.
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[top]
Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 00:39:18 -0000
From: "Succubus Barbie" <delirium1479@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: Time
Hola mes amies.
Having a bad day today. Having a miserable day today. Having a 'why am I
such a waste of life' day today that comes only on those days when everyone
else is having fun except for me and I'm stuck at home with nowhere to go,
no one to have fun with, no place to be. Having a shitty, miserable excuse
for a life today and hating myself because I'm not making something of it.
Fuck. I did write a poem today, though. I'm thinking that maybe mister E's
right. Maybe the best stuff comes from complete and total misery. I don't
know.
Title: S t M i I m L e E
What happened to all my time
That I have so much?
What happened to all my time
So that I am confronted with it
Every time I sit down
Every time I get up
Every time I close my eyes
Every time I hold a hand
Every time I look away
And realize that what Time is
Is some pulsing globule
Sucking at my head
Every time the lights dim
That's Time
Marking its territory
Every time you hear a sharp noise
That's Time
Calling your name
Every time you want to scream
Every time you want to cry
Every time you wish that something bad will happen to you
Thinking
'That'll show them'
Every time you look outside
And see the neighbors having such great fun
Every time you wish that you were someone else
Somewhere else
With some
other name
That's Time
Accepting its victory over
you
Time stalks me
Hunts me
With a twisted snarl
And a sardonic grin
Because Time loves its job
And Time loves to show you
That every second that you waste
Every minute that you spend wishing
And not doing
Every time you look up
And wonder how much of a crime it is
to waste one's minutes
to waste one's days
to waste one's life
And wonder what sort of punishment you'll receive
How many rocks you'll have to pound
How many pushups you'll have to sweat
How many lives that will be empty
because you were not there to fill them
Time loves to reveal to you
That every time you are offered the chance to make a difference
And you curl up back in
your cage
Time loves to show you
That the waste of your life
Is the most authentic form of its worship
That's its biggest joke of them all
Why pay others to inflict punishment
When you do so good by yourself?
Time is a henchman
A grinning demon
Time is a devil
A monster's minion
A junior assistant
In the lab of the damned
Time is the holder
Of the ax over my head
Time is the child
that defiles its ice cream
in front of the starving man
grinding the cone into the pebbly dirt
content in its full stomach
Time is the enemy that dances in front of me
behind me
with me
Time is my enemy
That I see every day
every time
I look into the mirror
and Time smiles back
How Now, Brown Cow?
Megan Christine Auffart
***************************************
I never saw a Purple Cow,
I never hope to see one;
But I can tell you anyhow,
I'd rather see than be one!
--- Gelett Burgess (1866-1951)
***************************************
http://www.geocities.com/Delirium1479/index.html
_________________________________________________________________
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[top]
Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2001 22:03:04 -0400
From: "Kevin Roscoe" <krmalkavian@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: This, that and some other stuff.....
Yael:
'But I wanted to add that just because someone makes a strong case does not
mean that the person is skewing the information, being dishonest or
one-sided.'
I read your whole post, good point, and I am skeptic on everything until I
see some more proof showing that it wasn't one sided. I find it easier to
poke and prod and see if that leads to more info. Then I let it alter my
beliefs, thoughts, and ideas.
James:
Kewl website and idea they had!
Violet:
'You could have found this information just as easily.'
Maybe so but I'm not a huge fan of running across the web. I own my own
computer company, have sold a couple machines and support them the odd time,
whether its a questions for the user, a problem the user created themself or
a hardware failure. I spend 8 hours a day supporting computers at work,
then I spend a bit with my personal email, including these digests, I prefer
going out and doing things with real people, the web is not something I
browse often and this past couple weeks, forget it...
'>Ok, so here is an extra cost on the side of a non-capital homicide,
>automatic appeal costs, what $0 to $1.50?
Non-capital homicide doesn't have automatic appeal.'
I did understand this the first time, worded my response badly, try the
following instead:
Ok, so here is an extra cost on the side of a non-capital homicide. For the
death penalty the automatic appeal is what $0 to $1.50? While the
non-capital homicide has to go through a lengthy pricy process that comes to
what value?
'You didn't bother to read it.'
I read your post, you gave a website for further information? I missed
that.
'that I'd be surprised if you spent more than five minutes on.'
I don't like where this is going, I do have other things going on around me
even when I'm doing my email that distract me, sometimes I pick up right
where i left off, sometimes I can't get the thoughts I had back.
'Look it up.'
As I look back at my above email here I am noting that I don't play on the
web, I don't know where to start looking for this type of information.
'you could *read* what I wrote'
Rather use ESP at this point.....seroiusly, I did, while other things were
happening and currently I don't remember reading anything other than the
name of Jill Farlow, I even scrollbackwards through it quickly trying to
pick out another source, but I guess I missed what was obviously there.
The time it would take me to find an equal amount of data that you found
would be, for me, weeks. Can't really have you respond, wait 2-3 months and
then reply to it, wouldn't that suck?
Truthfully I don't like someone telling me 'look it up, look it up, guess
what I'm gonna say' like I'm a 3-yr old child. That wasn't a pleasant thing
to read, but I do understand your point so no hard feelings here. Its done
with and I honestly don't want to talk about that anymore.
Due to the fact I can't devote the time necessary to continue this I bow
out, which I hate to do but I have things happening currently that do
detract from this great conversation. I only started recently getting into
these things, politics and stuff use to not be for me but now I find them
interesting, maybe when my life slows down I can gather what is necessary
and, well this discussion will be gone by then but hopefully we can have
another. An informed, thoughtful person you are Violet, thanks :)
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