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From:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date:
Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:32:25 -0700
Subject:
RDT Right Now #1390
To:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to:
<rdtrn-request@torithoughts.org>
with "unsubscribe" in the subject and body.
o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 01 : Issue #1390
.
o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o
. o o .
o o
O "Thoughts right now... O
o What will become of me, o
o Become of her, become of we?" o
. o o .
O O
O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O
o .
o
o
o
Tori Amos, "Thoughts"
In this issue:
o-o-o-o-o-o-o
close every door to me [ "Succubus Barbie" <delirium1479@hot ]
There's no place like home [ "Lavenda" <earth@comcen.com.au> ]
Green Blueberries are an oxymoron, r [ winterlion <winterlion@fsj.net> ]
TORI!!! [ Brian Cooper <ByteMe@smartchat.net. ]
to heather and beth w. [ Simon Booth <sbooth1@satx.rr.com> ]
standing outside a broken phonebooth [ Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.de ]
making music, making magic [ Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.de ]
et phone home [ Bonnie Wayne <bonnie@nmt.edu> ]
thinks he knows so much, thinks he k [ winterlion <winterlion@fsj.net> ]
"the end justifies the means!" * [ wildkoba <wildkoba@wildkoba.com> ]
virgins always get backstage [ BaBy AnGeL <arielha@juno.com> ]
Life before insanity [ BaBy AnGeL <arielha@juno.com> ]
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
Really Deep Quote:
none today
___________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________
Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives:
http://www.torithoughts.org/rdtrn/archives
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 04:34:17 +0000
From: "Succubus Barbie" <delirium1479@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: close every door to me
Hola mes amies!
There was lots and lots of cool stuff to reply to in the last digest, but I
pressed 'compose' instead of 'reply' so I'm just gonna ramble on instead of
replying. But I'm just going to say that everything everyone said in the
last digest was very replyable. How's that for good english?
Oh yeah. The it's-not-nice-to-say-teachers-suck thing. I shall reply to
that. I think that about 50% of the teachers I've had were okay. 30% of
the teachers I've had were the devil incarnate whose only reason to be put
onto this earth was to humiliate me in front of my classmates, and 20% of
them were God. Well, not God, but pretty damn close. Wonderful wonderful
teachers who actually used their time to make us LEARN, rather than waste
our time on useless shit we'll never need to know with the same amount of
enthusiam for their jobs as the guys who pick up dead animals off the road
for a career.
So Dani's a teacher, eh? I bet she's a lot better at teaching than most
teachers. But listen to me on this; never ever make a student cry by
screaming at them when they don't understand. My fucked up Biology teacher
did that fucking 5 times to me in 10th grade because I was the only one in
the class who would admit that I didn't understand. So she would (in the
words of my lab partner) 'rip me a new asshole' every time I raised my hand
and asked her to explain again about mitochondria or the Kreb's cycle. Then
she'd yell at me while 'explaining' it in the same friggin way she did
before! Ugh! I hope this years Biology will be better.... It's first
period, though. Sucks sucks sucks.....
*SOB*! I DON'T WANT TO GO BACK TO SCHOOL! I HATE SCHOOL! SCHOOL IS
ABNORMALLY CRUEL AND IT'S POINTLESS AND EVEN IF I _do_ LEARN SOMETHING I'LL
FORGET IT BY THE TIME I GO TO COLLEGE BECAUSE I DON'T PROCESS USELESS
INFORMATION VERY WELL AND I DON'T WANT TO GO!
Dammit! I'm smart! When I want to I have a good vocabulary and I can tell
you a brief version of the entire united states history and why India
rebelled against Britain and I can even do complex algebra problems! I can
ask for a drink of water in french and quote short shakespeare lines! I can
read on a college level! I can write a B+ essay and use somewhat proper
grammar and not sphel thengs liek a kendargartinur. I may enjoy using run
on sentences, but at least I know when I AM! Why should I go to school!?
At school I get fucking harassed by idiot boys younger than me. At school I
get constantly reminded of just how dumb I can be. At school all of my best
friends have LEFT for college and I don't know if I'll know anyone to sit
with at lunch. At school I am always bored because, unless I'm passionate
about something, I just don't CARE about how cleverly the periodic table of
the elements states all the information.
Why should I go to school!? I'm taking 4 AP classes and they'll give me
college credits and save me money, but otherwise it's completely pointless!
And it's a complete and total torture at times! I don't care what the hell
the school rules are. If some asshole decides to focus on tormenting me
again this year, I'll kick his nose in until it's completely broken. I am
SICK and TIRED of being told that I AM NOT GOOD ENOUGH! I've been told I'm
not good enough for eleven fucking years now! Must it continue for another
365 days?
School may have been important to me before. I mean, it has taught me a
bunch of stuff that I'll probably continue to use for the rest of my life.
However, when you add in the humiliation and harassment with no sleep and
too much homework, it's no fucking wonder kids bring guns to school! Every
single day during your childhood you are told time and time again to listen
to the grown-ups, get good grades, and be polite. Well, I've done that for
11 years now and it seems I am rewarded for my good behavior by kids yelling
'HUGE' at me from the bus windows when I pass and having to write 10 page
reports on books I've read when I was 12 in order to show that I've actually
read them and not fucked around like half the other kids in my school!
I am one angry girl. Maybe I shall make a teeshirt that says 'I went to
Franklin Regional and all I got was constant harassment, self-hatred, and
hours of pointless busy work. When I look back at my childhood days I think
I shall vomit.'
What do ya think? Is it direct enough?
How Now, Brown Cow?
Megan Christine Auffart
***************************************
I never saw a Purple Cow,
I never hope to see one;
But I can tell you anyhow,
I'd rather see than be one!
--- Gelett Burgess (1866-1951)
***************************************
http://www.geocities.com/Delirium1479/index.html
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 17:09:35 +1000
From: "Lavenda" <earth@comcen.com.au>
To: "Strange Little Arty Turners" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: There's no place like home
I know people here bag Starbucks, which I have never had, but I think I had
the second worst cup of coffee the other day. But the free cookies that came
with it were nice. I'm not a big coffee drinker, but heck, I can make a
better cup at home with Nestle crap!
I completely missed Simons comments about teachers. Even in high school, I
had a couple of great teachers, generally more than one a year. On the
whole, they were good, and there's only two in the whole of my high school
years that I really disliked, one with a passion. The other I understood to
have been an old lady who couldn't get kids of 'today'. Anyway, perhaps
every teacher you had anything to do with was an arsehole, but not every one
is.
I tend to think that there's a kind of line that you don't cross in high
school, and I guess Simpsons episodes have addressed it in their way;
teachers and students aren't meant to be friends in the normal course of
events. The extension of that that I'm getting at is that I think as a
student you'd feel like a dork thanking your teacher for making things more
interesting. There were a few teachers I gave christmas cards to (I have
proven myself to be a dork already haven't I?). My sister teaches primary
and she gets thankyous, not just christmas cards.
Ade typed:
>australia kicks ass. we should go sometime and bring laura so she can
drink
>fosters and unleash foster and we'll all get deported for random
Heh, there's just one drawback, we don't drink Fosters in Australia. There's
a miriad of others for you to try though :)
And Coops goes and steals another idea out of my head, I thought a similar
thing about royalties, though I was thinking of Eminem specifically and I
don't know whether he'd be for it.
As for Outlook, well, we use outlook express, and we've got the preview
window shut off. Taht's the way to deal with that one.
Coops typed:
>That just reminded me, I never even saw a video for one of her singles and
>you know how well I keep tabs on that. If you have to search your memory
>that bad, then there can't have been much released.
Well, I did see Glory a couple of times on Rage. Concertina didn't have a
video, Bliss wasn't released here, and well, I may have missed Oceans if it
was played. Rage have their playlists archived, but the RDTRN ones will do
me for now. :)
Bonnie typed:
>Yeah, but what E's saying is that we are born a LOT more prematurely
>than other species. Kittens are very delicate and vulnerable but they
>can scamper around pretty quickly. Human beings take much longer to
Well, I wasn't solely refering to the mobility factor. I was thinking in
terms of mobility, shelter, and food. Yes, it takes humans longer to mature,
but it was that period of life for any species that is refered to as
'infant' that I was thinking of, not the length of time each species spends
as an infant. So even if a cheetah cub is an infant for only a month it's
going to struggle, the same as a human infant, to look after itself for any
stretch of time.
Well, I can now say I've heard all of the SLG album, and I didn't even have
to download them. :) Thanks Renee!
X
Lavs
(Lavenda 1, primary adjunct of dominatrix Glenn)
~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~
Who could ever say you're not simply wonderful
- 'Merman', Tori Amos
~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~ ~^^~
http://www.crosswinds.net/~tiarna/start.html - Tiarna's Homepage
http://www.envy.nu/drifts/start.html - Drifts Get Deeper
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 00:46:51 -0700 (PDT)
From: winterlion <winterlion@fsj.net>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: Green Blueberries are an oxymoron, right? right? uh oh...
lotsa rants in this one umm I can't figure out how to edit this smaller.
issit okay size?
on schools and teachers and admins:
I've had -great- experiences with these folks - except for the
clueless ones. There's one lady who -definitely- qualified as
exceptionally cruel (she'd kick me out of places I like into areas where
the jock-types would want to hit me or other nasty things) but didn't know
she was being cruel...
The school systems -themselves- seem to be broken. Different people learn
at different speeds and in different ways - and "dumbing things down"
(what seems to be the current trend in north america) doesn't work...
Discipline is illegal, practice is for other people, and literacy seems to
be optional for graduation.. huh? This isn't the teacher's fault - they
either are stuck in a system they don't like or worse, they believe it
works... (my brother is basically illiterate due to the 'system' being
unable to teach him how to read - but he went through an experimental
class that obviously failed him - it made him believe he was dislexic)
(yes dislexia is real. My brother doesn't have it - he just thinks in a
slightly different way that means he has to learn differently. I think
the same way more or less and I -did- learn differently) (actually he
isn't dislexic anymore... thanks to online chatting :)
This is exactly what's happening in some places (like British Columbia and
Maryland apparently). I can't vouch for anywhere else...
btw - I learn socially -very- slowly which (for me) means I was always
more comfortable around mature people than students. I learn -extremely-
quickly just about everything else. This is perhaps a "rare" pattern but
it sure made things nice in University :)
And to sort of sum up - it appears to me that the -system- is what's
broken - but where is hard to say. Don't blame the folks even though
-you- had been shafted or possibly had a run-in with a bad lot (yes it
happens)
Ach enough ranting.
Hiya Alice I mean Brian Cooper! Glad to see I'm still remembered *g*
(went lurking for a bit) (no that joke -won't- get stale to me even though
everyone else is prolly tired of it or doesn't remember when it started :)
JORGE IS BACK!! YAY!!!
New Tori is -great- although with the wonders of downloading mp3's I'm
having trouble figuring out which ones are from older singles and which
ones are from new album. I know how -I- am going to solve it though - buy
the album when it gets here *grin*. Next she'll be singing a duet with
Weird Al though possibly (that'd be kinda fun :)...
> *** http://phattuesday.homestead.com/porn.html digest ***
This does -not- help his study one iota, does it? Does anyone -else-
have a compulsive need to open every link in every RDTRN (or at least the
"subliminal messages" :)
On addiction and critters: Critters get addicted too. Nuff said. Part
of society should include -social- support mechanisms to reduce the risk
of addiction (or likelyhood of it happening). Judging from what I see
around Vancouver, this system has failed - primarily for the north
american white and native populous. (Vancouver has so many cultures it's
hard to keep track of - but the most dangerous and troubled areas of town
are mostly white and native - and of a culture which I grew up around).
Maybe other cultures here have problems too - but they're not as visible.
(the other main populations are Asian, Middle eastern, east Indian, and
other such areas within shipping distance)
Vancouver has supposedly some of the worst drug problems in Canada. I
haven't seen it myself except in one area. One of the funniest things
(yes it was funny at the time) was this long haired man biking down the
street (Hastings) calling out "Weed, Mushrooms" like any salesman :)
I'll try not to get into the teaching debate (I'm pro-teachers btw -
wonderful people in a sticky situation having to deal with kids with no
self-control or self-discipline) or the addiction debate any further. The
only -personal- experience I've had with addiction was an addiction to
caffeine for a while and a mild mental addiction to weed (a few years ago
- and recognizing it was why I quit :) I'm not big on hypocrisy or
talking about things I don't know about but I get foot in mouth all da
time :)
hrm. I need to get less ranty about things. Maybe more randy would help?
*g* (Tori with black hair? Could work... but why short? Musicians are
so strange :)
G'day, eh? :)
- Winterlion, otherwise known as Teunis or "the one who writes
long messages that are hard to read and make little sense" or sometimes
"hopeful delerium-type think-thing"
except Arija was always better at writing like Delerium :)
--
May all your dreams be satisfying ones!
What is courage now? Is it just to go until we're done?
Men may call us heroes when they say we've won but if we should fail, how
then... What is courage now?
- Fellowship Going South by Leslie Fish sung by Julia Ecklar
Member in big red bush standing of the Mad Poet's Society.
Trying to bring truth from beauty is Winterlion.
find at this <a href="http://geocities.com/winterlion">winterlions' page</a>
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:50:38 +1000
From: Brian Cooper <ByteMe@smartchat.net.au>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: TORI!!!
I'm going to see Tori in DC on October 7!
No pissing around with Greyhound either, as I'll be there that night.
Wheeeee!
There is a goddess! [Shut up Simon ;-)]
Brian
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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 11:17:08 -0500
From: Simon Booth <sbooth1@satx.rr.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: to heather and beth w.
sorry about my computer comments- I never meant to imply that the recent
virus alerts were hoaxes, nor was I trying to criticize the expertise of
you two in the IT and office computer field.
Simon
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:13:26 -0700
From: Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.devin.com>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: standing outside a broken phonebooth with money in my hand
Bethey wrote:
> So I find the happy medium between expressing my connection to the subject
> and not over loading the emotions of those who are listening. They would
> rather cry about the 14 year old that made Tori realize the need for RAINN
> because she is faceless. Once you put your own face on the pain, people
> start to hurt for you, then they resent hurting for you because it makes
> them hurt. It makes a difference if they *ask* whether the pain is
> personal then having the pain shoved in their face. By asking, they have
> the power and won't resent the pain they may feel.
That's such an awesome obersation, and one not a lot of people get to come
to (mostly because they aren't in a position to speak in public about abuse
they've received in the past). You're right, a lot of times people don't
want to be forced into that position. Sometimes too it's because they
perceive you're trying to milk them for sympathy or pity, and I find that a
surprising number of people resent it when another person would like to have
their sympathy.
I was talking to someone recently online. Several things that had just been
said upset me, so I stepped away from the computer for a few minutes so I
wouldn't blow my top. (These are all friends of mine. Not that I'd want to
blow my top at strangers either, but I knew more about where they were
coming from and they knew more about where I was coming from.) I came back
and said I was just trying to compose myself. One guy I knew said that
stating this aloud was "manipulative." Further questioning brought him to
tell me that he thought when women cry, most of the time they do it to
manipulate someone else into a) giving them sympathy or b) giving them what
they want. So I said "So if we were arguing and you had just said something
hurtful and I started crying, you'd say I was doing it to manipulate you?"
And he said "yes."
Aside from me finding this entirely offensive - I don't cry for any other
reason that I am upset and can't contain it - it's interesting to me that
many men would feel this way. I'm predisposed to rush to the side of anyone
who's crying and ask them if they're ok, if they need anything, etc. But if
there are other people who see crying as a sign of manipulative, things
could get a whole lot worse for the person crying. You know what I mean?
I'm not saying I don't think there are people out there who cry on demand or
who do it to make others react a certain way, or to manipulate. But to say
that most people do it ... well, that strikes me as kind of a scary
perspective. One that could lead to a lot of resentment - and possibly
abuse, depending on how much that person resents feeling manipulated & how
they react to it.
Koba wrote:
> "gimme shelter" is just...i get chills just thinking about it.
Yeah. I don't like most of the Stones' songs but I like this one a lot. And
not just because a certain boy from my past turned me on to it. There's just
something that to me makes this song stand apart - and of course part of
it's Merry Clayton's voice.
Said boy also turned me onto early Floyd, the White Album, Disraeli Gears,
and a bunch of other really cool stuff. :) There's nothing like laying
together in a tiny bed in a house in the woods and falling asleep to
"Julia Dream..."
John wrote:
> Ummm. Yours just says your name, you know. Don't complain about an
> old trend, start a new trend. :-)
Like someone else here said, I use my email for more than just
correspondence with friends. I use it for some work stuff and also I email
my dad a lot, and wouldn't really want to confuse those people. I use other
forums for my weird little quotes and ideas (like my sig file, below, and
the space between the parentheses after my nickname in irc, which right now
says "Anachronistic and impulsive" (from a VNV Nation song) and used to say
"Linux Widow," a nod to my relationship).
> So, we're looking at a situation where the children of
> privilege will not only have better nutrition, health care and education,
> they will be taller, better looking, smarter and more resistant to
> disease.
The latter thing is one of the things I keep arguing about. Being
homogeneous makes us LESS resistant to disease. If we're all the same way,
an unforetold parasite or virus could come in and wipe out many many many
more people than if we're all different.
> The more general question, which is very difficult, is how much right
> *do* parents have to bring up their offspring with their own prejudices?
That IS indeed a tough question. It's easy to say "well prejudiced people
shouldn't be allowed to have children." But perhaps a better answer comes
from our former First Lady, in that it takes a village to raise a child.
Hopefully the "village" in question won't be one handpicked by the parent.
There are always going to be unknowns - people who will influence your
child's life in ways you can't control. If you've given your child the
ability to reason and make his or her own educated choices (which IMO is a
thousand times more valuable than teaching the child your own values,
WHATEVER those values might be), they should come out okay - and with a
strong sense of who they are as they grow and develop.
> > kids "learn to be gay" by seeing other gay people
> I doubt that this is true, but what if it is?
Then so what? :) I think S&M is okay in a lot of cases, and I don't think
many people learn about that until they see it somewhere - book, magazine,
TV, play party, etc.
> It would seem that the main category of people to avoid is the clergy,
> since so much molestation (of boys *and* girls) is done by priests and
> ministers.
I was going to bring that up in my previous post, but I couldn't think of a
way to say it without implying that all clergy members are molesters. You
did it. Thanks. :)
> If the mutation is negative, they will. Some mutations are
> beneficial, and those are more likely to reproduce. For example, I read
> somewhere that the human mouth and jaw structure is a *less* efficient
> machine for eating than it was centuries ago. But it's *more* efficient
> for talking, indicating that, in the modern world, the ability to talk
> is a more important survival characteristic than the ability to rend
> flesh from bone.
Good point! I had forgotten to bring that issue up, but of course it's
there. We are developing in ways and for reasons that may not be as logical
as the fact that our jaws are getting smaller in part because our brains are
getting bigger (ie, the people with larger brains are reproducing more,
creating larger-brained children, etc). This is why we're all having so many
problems with wisdom teeth: evolution in action.
Of course, if we destroy the ozone layer, the only people who are gonna be
left are the darker-skinned people, mainly the blacks, because us palefaces
are all going to get skin cancer and die if we're not careful. That could be
really interesting.
Heather wrote:
> oh and i totally lost my bearings when tool played. that WAS an out of body
> experience. my GOD that band is good. someone wrote on the toolshed board
> that their show was a "blow your hair back" experience. i think that's the
> best way to describe it. next, pj harvey in september and tori and tool
> (again!) in november. it's a good few months comin' up.
Indeed it is. I got around to deciding I wanted to see PJ Harvey, even
though I don't have any of her albums and have only heard a few of her
songs, and now the concert in SF is sold out. :( Maybe if I'm in the mood
I'll go down there the night of and see if anyone's got an extra.
In addition to what you already mentioned though, Bjork has an album coming
out on Aug. 28 and I'm VERY excited about a new Days of the New album coming
out on Sept. 25. I'm praying they come out here and do a show because I've
been dying to see them since I saw a show of theirs in like 1997. The tour
for their last album was cut short because they made it to California, which
was a major bummer.
spiral out,
Beth
--
"When the barbarians approach on the frontiers of a civilization it is a
sign of crisis in that civilization when the barbarians come not with
weapons or war but songs and icons of peace it is a sign of crisis is one of
a spiritual nature we have forgotten our spiritual nature." (Ian Astbury)
_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
music reviews + stories + poetry + photography + collage + Watchers
selkies + froud-faeries + esoterica + links = http://echoes.devin.com
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 12:19:18 -0700
From: Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.devin.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: making music, making magic
I almost forgot!
I've added two new articles to my site. These are pieces I wrote last year
for a friend's magazine... the magazine has since kind of fallen on hard
times and so the articles haven't been published. I wanted to make sure they
saw the light of day so I've put them on my web site.
The first is called "The Shaman in the Arena: The Concert as a Spiritual
Journey" and pretty much discusses what the title suggests. I talk mainly
about Live, Tori Amos and the Doors in this piece. (I may, at some point, do
a revision of this one, involving Tool, but have not yet decided.)
The second is called "Magic in the Mix: Techniques in Recorded Rock Music"
and goes through music by Days of the New, Lisa Gerrard, Sheila Chandra,
Fields of the Nephilim and Coil and discusses some magical techniques - from
simple things like rhythm and glossolalia to more advanced structures - used
in musical recordings.
Both can be found at the top of the list here:
http://echoes.devin.com/creativity.html
Enjoy. I think a lot of you guys will find these interesting, if I do say so
myself. :)
Beth
--
"When the barbarians approach on the frontiers of a civilization it is a
sign of crisis in that civilization when the barbarians come not with
weapons or war but songs and icons of peace it is a sign of crisis is one of
a spiritual nature we have forgotten our spiritual nature." (Ian Astbury)
_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 13:26:26 -0600
From: Bonnie Wayne <bonnie@nmt.edu>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: et phone home
"regarding animals not doing pot, I have to disagree."
I was speaking of animals choosing to self-administer drugs in a
laboratory.
"Another problem is that medical science is a for-profit industry, and
historically have not paid as much attention to possible cures which
they didn't think could generate major income (herbal medicines,
acupuncture, etc.)."
Huh. I thought herbal medicines and acupuncture were both lucrative
businesses. The problem with herbal medicines is that they aren't
controlled the way other pharmaceuticals are so you don't know exactly
what you're getting. They aren't researched as much either. I'm not
quite sure what the reason for that is. Might be about profit like you
said. As for acupuncture: I'm sure poking needles in people does
temporarily inhibit pain. Our bodies pump out analgesics when we are
injured (such as being pricked with needles). Also, the placebo
effect. It's the details that make the practice worthy of skepticism.
"> kids "learn to be gay" by seeing other gay people
I doubt that this is true, but what if it is?"
well, it's not true. how can we put a stop to this way of thinking
about homosexuals?
"> if we start figuring out which is the "gay gene" or the "black gene"
This would definitely happen."
Actually, it would most likely not happen because I'm sure these traits
aren't controlled by any one gene. Media loves to grab onto this idea.
The "alcholic gene" etc. It's simply not true. The blueprints to our
system is far more scattered and complex than this. You're not going to
find the secret to any one trait like this locked into one specific
gene.
"It's like the argument that the trading of digital music will
never really threaten the record companies because the sound quality
of an MP3 is inferior to the sound quality of a CD. That's true now,
but it will change."
MP3s are lesser quality but that's because frequencies we can't hear
aren't in the song. So you can't tell the difference in quality unless
you have inhuman ears. The sound quality for MP3s isn't likely to
change. That would require new technology and so it would be given a
new name. MP4. I know what you meant though.
"In spanish Sandia means watermelon."
Yeah, I know. Apparently the color of the mountains in east Albuquerque
resemble the color of a watermelon during sunrise. I'm guessing that
the labs then got named after the mountains so we have a prestigious
national watermelon laboratory.
"if you can genetically make a gay person not-gay, give a person blue
eyes instead of brown, first of all you're making a serious value
judgment."
Agreed. Not a good thing at all.
"I don't think we can say that eradicating, oh, brain deformities or
congenital heart problems is all right in the long run on the grounds
that "we don't need it, and people would be better of without it.""
I guess this is where our opinions differ. I think that if we have the
means to cure someone of a debilitating health problem, we should go
ahead with that technology. Your diversity argument could be used
against any health technology. Well, we don't want to help them live a
more normal life becuase we need diversity. There are tons of crippling
diseases out there, like MS, these people do not deserve to suffer for
the sake of 'diversity'.
"Read your Darwin. See Gattaca." Check and check.
--
Bonnie J. Wayne E-Mail: bonnie@nmt.edu
http://www.nmt.edu/~bonnie
New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology
Department of Biology, Masters Candidate
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:57:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: winterlion <winterlion@fsj.net>
To: "RDT Right Now [yes yes :]" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: thinks he knows so much, thinks he knows so much...
*g*
anyhoo - on banks and M$ bs - there's a good reason -no- Canadian bank
runs -any- M$ product anywhere it can cause harm. And most banks won't do
an upgrade or fix unless it's been tested for 12 months or more. Nuff
said. (I've done repairs on bank computers, servers, machines, ... for a
number of different Canadian banks)
on genetic repairs : Only simple ones - genes that are -absolutely-
certain will probably have any kind of widespread use. Really - genetic
systems are just like computer programming in some ways except
considerably more complicated and prone to trouble... And me I'm happy
with my genes my jeans although my jeans are getting frayed now fraid know
that this is maybe a long path...
besides I'm glad M$ doesn't (can't) do gene splicing. Or jean splicing
for that matter - although if they got into that you'd see a lot of
half-naked people running around... that would be strange.
I've heard "bonny and clide 97" recorded from a radioshow and distrbuted
in mp3. All I can say is -wow-. umm 'nuff said there too..
G'day, eh? :)
- Winterlion, hoping to scrape enough pennies to see Tori!!! *yay*
--
May all your dreams be satisfying ones!
What is courage now? Is it just to go until we're done?
Men may call us heroes when they say we've won but if we should fail, how
then... What is courage now?
- Fellowship Going South by Leslie Fish sung by Julia Ecklar
Member in computers are tools no more than that standing of the Mad Poet's
Society.
Trying to bring truth from beauty is Winterlion.
find at this <a href="http://geocities.com/winterlion">winterlions' page</a>
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:56:11 -0400
From: wildkoba <wildkoba@wildkoba.com>
To: rdt <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: "the end justifies the means!" *
redstamen: fuck you. fuck you. fuck you. fuck you....and....fuck you. and oh
wait! fuck you.
i was tempted to remark about the whole teachers thing, but dani the
arsehole (believe it, guys: she is) pretty much said anything i could've
about 30 times better. and then the "fuck you" chick with her "sex chocolate
and latin are the best things in life"...how do you match up to THAT?
personally, i'd like the next girl i hook up with to whisper "exitus actus
probat!" (*) in my ears.
> wha????
> tell me simon, do you like ANYONE besides tori?
that usually sounds like the kind of question that's asked of me.
> basicaly because i have a rockin cheerleading sweater that i wanted to
> wear. he's carrying around a bottle labeled "Rx" and putting pills in my
> drink ever so often.
> the objective? the more you can offend, the better your chance of winning a
> prize.
> (this from the same kid who wants to have a party on pearl harbor day
> entitled "come get bombed!" he's crazy, really.)
arija in a cheerleading sweater: i'd say something about the erection that
image gives me, but i'm not so sure that would offend her.
speaking of nasty and offense, i was totally enlightened by a dear friend of
mine yesterday. she gave me a new name for the uniquely female monthly
experience that has been referred to as "red wings" here:
cap'n bloodsnatch!
that was so bad, i keeled over in disgust. to add to it, she then said she
would have "go walk the plank," to which i replied "just don't leave any
chum on my bathroom floor, please."
i wonder what kind of prize that would get me, arija.
"come get bombed" reminds me of a party i heard about that was given at
carnegie mellon on good friday: "jesus is dead."
(neither rain nor snow nor gloom of night can stay kathy h. from swift
completion of her appointed rounds)
wild koba
******************************************************************
david y. kobayashi - wildkoba@wildkoba.com - http://www.wildkoba.com
wild koba's shack of funk - journals, visuals, et al.
"i bring truth and understanding, i bring wit and wisdom fair- precious
gifts beyond compare." -n. peart
******************************************************************
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:05:01 -0600
From: BaBy AnGeL <arielha@juno.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: virgins always get backstage
Ha!
Well, here's another of my VERY depressing fifth-grade poems (and is it
ever depressing!) but first I'd like to say:
Simon, I feel so intellectually dwarfed by you! Damn! Reading on a
college level in 4th/5th grade?! I was reading on a college level in
sixth grade!
Beth W., I liked your post on cloning and homosexuality. Sad to say, but
my parents are very homophobic and I was too, until I was about nine and
I figured out for myself that it wasn't anything bad. I still feel really
bad about that, because homophobia is awful and something the world
really needs to get over. But, I guess it's not like I could've done much
better. I was an impressionable little kid, and what my parents said was
true. Oh, and they also dislike blacks and Jews. Just a mild dislike, but
that irritates me as well.
And Ade, wow, you were saying shit when you were eight? When I was eight,
I didn't even know that word. At that time, I had learned my first curse
word, and just the thought of saying it ("damn!") would've stopped my
heart. Now I cuss freely, in front of my 'rents, even. Man, Ade, you were
one precocious little eight-year-old! Hey, my nine-year-old sister called
me an asshole the other day. Where do kids pick up on this kind of
language? Certainly not from their big sisters...
Ok, so here's the poem. Warning: It is incredibly depressing.
these are slow and groggy days
that drain the life
out of my spine
i've been submerged in pain
but enough energy is given
to get out of the car and whine
just not enough to smile
can't even answer the phone
though the tips of my fingers
are painted gold
i can not hold you
and one button came loose
my own hair rests
on my shoulders but screams
because you will not touch it
you will not be near me
so once again
let the rain of god wash away
everything you hate about me
anything that keeps me from you
i will stand here in this shower
until you'll love me again
or until i catch a sickness
~~BaByAnGeL
________________________________________________________________
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[top]
Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:48:46 -0600
From: BaBy AnGeL <arielha@juno.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: Life before insanity
It's not classy to baby-sit your nine-year-old brat of a sister on a
perfectly nice Sunday night, but here I am. Well, at least she's not
giving me too much shit. She didn't argue with me when I made her go to
bed at nine-thirty. So she's in bed right now, probably lying awake and
staring at her dark ceiling. We really are a lot alike.
The other day she called me an asshole and I told her to "bite me." She
said, "How suave of you to use that expression." Is she smart or what?
So maybe my sister isn't giving me too much shit tonight, but my printer
sure is. I'm printing out this 32-page story I wrote in fourth grade that
is actually good, in its own little way, and it is really pissing me off.
My printer is way fucked up, and when it releases a page it doesn't put
it out all the way, so a corner of the paper is still in the printer. So
every time it spits out a page, I have to grab it so the printer won't
get jammed. I am getting really tired, and bored. I am on the brink of
insanity. It all reminds of when I was downloading one of Tori's MP3s
from Strange Little Girls and it was taking forever.
97%......98%......99%......it took about eight Mississippis for it to
move to the next percentage. and when I was fed up and ready to clobber
the computer with our five-pound dictionary, it finally went to 100%.
Hooray!
Ok, gotta stop rambling.
BaByAnGeL
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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