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From:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date:
Sun, 28 Jul 2002 18:29:25 -0700
Subject:
RDT Right Now #1681
To:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to:
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o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 02 : Issue #1681
.
o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o
. o o .
o o
O "Thoughts right now... O
o What will become of me, o
o Become of her, become of we?" o
. o o .
O O
O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O
o .
o
o
o
Tori Amos, "Thoughts"
In this issue:
o-o-o-o-o-o-o
BIRTHDAY!! [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ]
favs [ "Bethany Rusen" <hejira@u-town.com> ]
vacation [ Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.de ]
Crime & Punishment [ Chris <cmeyers@oasis.novia.net> ]
UFO;s [ Chris <cmeyers@oasis.novia.net> ]
late night rambles [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ]
Pirates Ahoy! [ Brian Cooper <ByteMe@smartchat.net. ]
birthday!! [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ]
[ =======================> In RDT History <======================= ]
On July 28th in 1992, the first part (intro) from the June 92
German Keyboards interview.
In 1993, the list springs back to life with talk about a b-side
tape a member was putting together for folks, and "legal"
claims on bootlegs.
In 1994, feminazis/feminists having a problem with Tori's
sexuality (or not), responses to 'who is Neil?', and a Tori
boot discography list is started.
In 1995, members were discussing suicide, their first music
purchase/concert, abortion, and Tori's entry in "Women, Sex And
Rock 'N' Roll Their Own Words" book is posted.
In 1998, the painting in the Euro CG video is named as "The
Swing" by Fragonard. It can be viewed at:
http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/131.jpg
In 1999, statutory rape, and Tori quotes for yearbook quotes.
In 2001, why artists tour.
[ ================================================================== ]
Today's fuzzy ferret assistant: Lavenda
Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives:
http://www.torithoughts.org/rdtrn/archives
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[top]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 04:19:36 -0400
From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: BIRTHDAY!!
Simon!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!!!!!! :) (eek! Tori'd flay me alive
for all of those !'s I just used.. *hides*)
Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford (Keyyooo on ICQ and IRC, Keyyooo1 on AIM)
http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ --
http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ --
http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ --
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude
Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do.
Not. Describe. Myself."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
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[top]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 16:05:53 -0400
From: "Bethany Rusen" <hejira@u-town.com>
To: "Dipfucks" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: favs
John listed his favorite movies:
"1. McCabe & Mrs. Miller
2. Touch of Evil
3. To Have & Have Not
4. Natural Born Killers
5. Nashville"
hmm. last i heard McCabe & Mrs. Miller and Nashville were fighting it out
for the top spot. guess it's changed.
my favorite movies are lame, just because i don't have watch a lot of them.
1. Fight Club
2. The Piano
3. Natural Born Killers
4. Ghost Dog
5. Taxi Driver
-bethany
_______________________________________________________________
a journal : http://hejira.u-town.com
the centralia project : http://centralia.u-town.com
"Why keep a journal? To stop time. To make a point about the pointlessness
of it all. To have company. To be remembered. For these is so much to be
recalled, with no one to do the recalling." (Ned Rorem)
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[top]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 14:32:37 -0700
From: Beth Winegarner <echoes@atlantic.devin.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: vacation
So Devin and I are leaving today for a week's vacation.
It's the first we've ever taken, not counting the horrible 'camping trip'
we tried to have over a weekend a few years back. The most notable thing
about it was that we came back to civilization to find out that Lady Diana
had been killed.
This time, we'll be spending about three days at his parents',
housesitting while they tour New England, then traveling to a cottage
on the coast where we will spend a few days relaxing, reading, and
poking around in the wilderness. We're taking Mouse to his parents'; she
used to live there, although she has been enjoying the
dog-free environment of our apartment for the past year and a half.
I'm looking forward to the possibility of spending four days
within sight and earshot of the ocean. I've never done that,
although the coast is one of my favorite places to be. I suspect it could
be unexpectedly magical, although I'd settle for
comforting and relaxing. I'm also looking forward to all this time
with Devin. Although living with him means I get to see him often, we're
always very busy. I hope he'll go on walks with me, and hold
my hand. I'd like that. (I hope we'll do plenty else, but will leave that
to your imaginations). I also hope to sleep and dream a lot, and
have the kind of dreams I tend to have when daily pressures are not
crowding my brain.
I'm also thinking of spending some time in meditation every day, which I
rarely have the headspace to do anymore.
I'm bringing my Palm and keyboard, so I can write everything down
that wants to be written.
I'll have net access the first few days (until
sometime Tuesday), and knowing me I'll probably check in. Otherwise,
have fun without me and I'll see you all when I get back.
Beth
--
"How do you 'consume' music, when (a) music isn't a thing and (b)
it's still there after you've used it... Just because the industry markets
it as a commodity doesn't mean we have to accept their terms of reference.
It's time people stopped talking about 'consuming' art and culture and so
on and started thinking of art as an activity." (Christopher Small)
_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
music reviews + stories + poetry + photography + collage + Watchers
livejournal + selkies + esoterica + links = http://echoes.devin.com
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[top]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:22:14 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris <cmeyers@oasis.novia.net>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: Crime & Punishment
) i felt obliged to respond to your final point. in my view, crime
) (noun, "a
) violation of law; an act of serious moral wrongdoing") may be a fact of life,
) but it SHOULDN'T BE, and it's something that law makers, the judiciary and
) society as a whole must deal with, not just merchants.
I don't agree with many crimes, but they are still facts and I can only
try to change reality. It doesn't do me much good to ignore it.
I don't like most legislation and here's why:
There's this woman touring the country and getting states to adopt new
safety belt laws for children.
Mind you, she isn't helping even ONE poor mother to get a booster seat.
She is not handing out even ONE brochure to educate people on the benefits
of these seats. She is simply making sure that if a woman doesn't know
about or doesn't have the money for a booster seat she is punished if the
police catch her.
Punishment instead of funding or education...and what a great person she
must think she is when she goes to sleep at night.
Her child died, so now everyone who does what she did that led to the
death of her kid must be punished. Not educated or supported...punished.
So what do I think of prison? I think of it as a way to keep people we
don't need in society out of society. Not as punishment...but simply a way
to say "You...we haven't decided to kill you, but why don't you just stay
off the streets for 20-40 years..or would you prefer the alternative"?
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[top]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 18:23:47 -0500 (CDT)
From: Chris <cmeyers@oasis.novia.net>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: UFO;s
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A8131-2002Jul26.html
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[top]
Date: Sat, 27 Jul 2002 23:39:06 -0400
From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: late night rambles
heyyyyy everybody! :)
my brother got a new car.. a Chrysler Sebring (thank you Simon
for the reminder.. dang! :)) convertible.. I just got back from taking a
trip in it with him, his wife and my mom.. I love that car! anyway..
Arija said: "what's next, a duet with peabo bryson?"
who's that??
Arija then said: "though i am getting a cable modem installed on monday,
so i'll actually be able to do useful things from my computer at home."
YAAAAAAAY!!!!! lol cable modems rule. :)
Koba said: "i broke my own policy, however, when the napster ruling was
issued. that day, i proceeded to download the first 5 metallica albums,
of
which i'll never buy...."
Hmmmm... you feel betrayed by 'em don't you? *shakes head*
John said: "Only classical albums were made from virgin vinyl."
something about "virgin vinyl" just.. sounds.. so warped in my
head to me. *evil grin* hee hee..
John then said: "I also liked the ending, and I don't think it was a
typical Hollywood ending at all. The predictable Hollywood ending in
that situation would have been for the protagonist to *stop* the
explosions, preferably at the very last minute. For him to get to the
point of being able to stop them, but to let them go anyway, that doesn't
seem typical to me."
I think e's reference to FC having a Hollywood ending was the way
Jack and Marla held hands while watching all the buildings topple over..
*shrug*
Beth.. good luck with that math.. *rooting for you*
Simon: that page.. very nice. :)
and that's all from me for now! :)
Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford (Keyyooo on ICQ and IRC, Keyyooo1 on AIM)
http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ --
http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ --
http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ --
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude
Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do.
Not. Describe. Myself."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
[top]
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 22:01:11 +1000
From: Brian Cooper <ByteMe@smartchat.net.au>
To: Really Deep Thrusts Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: Pirates Ahoy!
You know what this is going to be about.
Matt wrote in #1677...
>and i believe that one of the most enjoyable things about music is when you
>buy something you've never heard before and you end up loving it. do we
>really want to take away that sense of *discovery*?
That's exactly what I alluded to in my first post on this subject. I'd
never heard a song by L7 until I bought "Hungry For Stink". I didn't know
anyone that knew the band and the only thing that prompted me to buy it was
an article about them. I liked their attitude and it turned out their music
matched it. Within days I bought "Bricks Are Heavy" and they both stayed in
my CD player, played daily for months. Probably about 10% of my CD
collection is made up of bands I'd never heard or only heard one song
before purchased and some of these are my all time favourites. Sure, I've
got some dud CDs, but I don't bemoan the fact I didn't sample them first.
>this is what creates the janis ian situation - artists sign contracts with
>record companies so they can have their work professionally recorded and
>distributed, but surrender ownership of their intellectual property. if they
>then decide later in their careers that they wish to take back their property
>and distribute it freely, they can't
It's something that I think is the biggest evil in the recording industry
and only seems to exist in the recording industry. Sure, the company takes
a big risk in signing a new artist, promoting them, putting the CDs out in
the stores and waiting for people to buy them. In that, they do have rights
to the music and control over it. They've made a big investment and taken a
risk, so they deserve to make money in return. Many small artists never
break even, so the companies need to tie up the big names to break even.
What is wrong however is that the record companies didn't create the
original art they are making a profit from. They are largely just a
marketing machine. But what about when that marketing machine "breaks down"
and refuses to support an artist? They just sit on the material and the
artist fades into obscurity.
If it's not that, the companies are binding an artist to a seven album
contract these days, which is practically a career compared to the 60's
when you'd be likely to see an album produced every year. You're lucky if
you see a new album from an artist every two years these days.
What about albums that are buried by record companies because they're not
considered commercial enough. Only the consumers can really determine that,
but they'll never hear the songs as they're tied up for eternity.
I think what the industry needs to be fairer to everyone is for standard
contracts to be used, where one side of the equation is not disadvantaged.
Main features would include ownership of the music to return to the artist
after a prescribed time, lets say ten years. If an album is to be buried,
the artist should have the option to take it to another record company.
Record companies shouldn't dictate what an album sounds like, they should
only advise. If they signed an artist on what they liked in the first
place, then they should show some faith in that artist. Contracts are too
biased in favour of the companies now, unless you're already a
multi-platinum artist looking for a new contract.
Brad wrote in #1678:
>I have done some Napster and post Napster downloading and I believe the
>end result was positive record sales for the companies and artists from
>me.
Would you like a round of applause? What about all the people that choose
not to buy? It still doesn't negate the fact that you have been in
possession that was not rightfully yours. You're still going to CD hell.
>I wonder if Brian is as gung ho on enforcing drinking and drug laws as
>he is on enforcing the copying cd laws?
If you're talking a little underage drinking or a bit of pot, I've got no
trouble with that as users are only likely to be hurting themselves.
Consider that group as being people that only make copies for personal use.
If however you're talking about drunken driver or drug pushers, they
deserve everything the law can throw at them as they are hurting others. Do
I need to point out they'd be the downloaders of society?
Next.
Chris wrote:
> Lets mention that it was a mix-tape that I was given with ILLEGALLY
>copied Tori songs that prompted me to uy my first 2 tori albums 8 years
>ago. Since then I've bought every single and album I've seen (even ones
>with different mixes or covers)
Isn't Tori lucky then? What about all the other artists on that mix tape
that you didn't like? As I've maintained from the start, the cream will
always rise to the surface. You may not have heard of Tori then, but
chances are you would have heard her later. What's the rush? You'd still
have plenty of time for fueling your Tori obsession, you just wouldn't have
got in on the ground floor.
> It *is* legal o copy a cd you own. This was ruled in court and since it
>didn't make a big difference the record companies decided not to pursue it
>further (This siwhat I understand anyway).
Again, the point I've been making about this form the start, whether true
or not is that record companies don't give a rats arse about people who
make copies for themselves. Is it cost effective to take half the world's
music buying public to court? Why bite the hand that feeds you anyway?
> Tommorow someone shoplifts a tori cd from best buy (If you shoplift tori
>then you're a bad person with good taste so I forgive you). This goes on
>ever week for the next year.
>
> Meanwhile store "B" never gets a single shoplifter.
>
> Does anyone seriously believe that best buy isn't going to continue to
>put its prices lower than store "b" so that it doesn't lose business?
For someone that likes complex conspiracy theories, this argument is really
shallow. If store "B" never gets stolen from, then either nobody goes in
there or they have better security than Fort Knox. Security like that
doesn't come cheap, which will drive up their price. If shop "B" is
independent, it cannot compete with a large chain who gets volume discounts
from the record companies. While high volume artists might be heavily
discounted in a chain store, the price of less popular new releases will be
driven up to compensate for all the theft. Who loses then?
Emmanuel wrote:
>I have a firm standing point on this one: personal copying should be
>allowed.
Just to make it clear, legalities or not, I don't have a problem with
people doing it ONLY for themselves. In some circumstances I'd even
encourage it, like for a CD stacker in a car. Besides the fact a car is
about the worst environment you can keep CDs in, you have to factor in the
possibility of having your car broken into or even stolen.
>Surely the record companies know by now that CD-R's are not being used to
>backup software or make a single backup copy of an albun ( just in case, you
>know? ) solely. If they know this, then their only solution would be to stop
>all manufacture of blank cd's and respective disc burners.
It's the height of hypocrisy for some of the record companies, since they
also manufacture CD burners, blank CDs and even MP3 players. These items
also generate a lot of income for them. But they don't care as long as
you're not widely distributing their material.
>Is it fair that the products that we willingly buy from these humongous
>companies are so flawed and lacking any warranty??
Are they? Like Matt and John, I've got 400+ CDs purchased over a period of
at least 16 years and all of them play perfectly. I have only ever had to
return one to the point of purchase as it was defective (Nirvana's
Nevermind if anyone cares).
Like anything, they will last for years, even decades if you care for them.
If they are damaged through abuse or mishandling, you'll find that no
warranty anywhere will replace or refund.
>REM is a good example because they are the band with the best record deal
>ever. When they joined Warner, each one of the members was paid a
>ridiculous amount of 20 million. Does Michael Stipe moan and whine about a
>few copies being made of the records you are still buying?
How many bands get contracts like that? Of course they're not going to care
about royalties. They only got that sort of money because they were a known
product, you'd never see an unsigned artist given that sort of cash.
In #1679, Estraven wrote:
>As for Napster, I did use it, and I did get some "free" music
>(about two hours' worth)...all of which was long since out of print:
>unless the stuff is re-released, the artists (or, in many cases,
>their estates) have already got all the money they will ever get from
>the material in question. The only way I could own the originals
>would be to purchase them from a collector. No royalties involved
>there.
Which is why Napster and companies of their type stuffed up. As I said in
my original post on this subject, if they approached the record companies
and said, "We've got this great software. You can put all the stuff you
can't be bothered manufacturing anymore on a server, people will come to
you and buy it at an unbelievably low price. You'll make money, since you'd
already given up on the product, the artist will make money in royalties
and we'll make money from you making money."
It could be done in the same vein as e-books. Prices can be low as there is
no physical product or distribution channels. All the consumer is doing is
dealing direct with the record company. The consumer gets what they want
and everybody's happy.
John wrote in #1680:
>Well, I'm no expert, but my understanding is that you can burn a copy of a
>CD to a CD-R and it will be the same, just as a Word document copied from
>one disk to another will be the same. It's just copying a file, a row of
>ones and zeroes, why should it change?
That is where CD burners are a problem when copies are given mass
distribution, unlike tapes where you'd lose fidelity with every generation
until they become unlistenable. While you might get the odd glitch in the
burning process through cheap media or unstable drives, in a perfect world
you will get a perfect copy every time, no matter how many generations.
Roxanne wrote:
>I think you are under-estimating the self-publishing artist. Ani Difranco and
>Melissa Ferrick have proved to us that with smart marketing and hard work you
>can do really do well for yourself.
I'm not up on the histories of these artists, but I'm guessing they
originally had the backing of a recording company. Being self-publishing is
only really feasible if you are already known.
>I have a strong feeling that in the future, 15-20 years from now, these
>massive record companies will no longer exist and musicians will live by
>their own publishing power.
I would dearly love to see that too, but it can still be done if the record
companies were more transparent to the making of music and stick to what
they're best at: marketing. This will only happen if recording artists
stand as one against the companies.
from Simon:
>there are two records from the 70s that, for the past 25 years, have been
>subjected to extreme conditions.....
>
>what two records am I referring to?
But they're made out of gold, not vinyl.
Brian
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[top]
Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 13:56:00 -0400
From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: birthday!!
WOJ!! happy birthdayyyyyy! :)
Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford (Keyyooo on ICQ and IRC, Keyyooo1 on AIM)
http://learntothink0.tripod.com/learntothinkagain/ --
http://www.geocities.com/keyyooo/ --
http://www.platinumcomplication.com/cyndi/ --
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=kittitude
Tori Amos' response when asked to describe herself in five words: "I. Do.
Not. Describe. Myself."
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.
o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o o-o-o
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