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From:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Date:
Sun, 2 Nov 2003 12:24:49 -0800
Subject:
RDT Right Now #1871
To:
rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Do not hit reply to unsubscribe. To unsub, send a message to:
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with "unsubscribe" in the subject and body.
o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
Really Deep Thoughts Right Now Volume 03 : Issue #1871
.
o - O - O - O - O - O - O - O - o
. o o .
o o
O "Thoughts right now... O
o What will become of me, o
o Become of her, become of we?" o
. o o .
O O
O - o - o - o - o - o - o - o - O
o .
o
o
o
Tori Amos, "Thoughts"
In this issue:
o-o-o-o-o-o-o
RE: songs about verbiage [ "Dalsh 327" <dalsh327@hotmail.com> ]
Giving Public Thanks [ "Beth Coulter" <betheqt@voicenet.co ]
re_1870 [ "ms. jessica parsons" <fullblownlif ]
Out of Office AutoReply [ John Bragazzi <utown@worldnet.att.n ]
boo [ John Bragazzi <utown@worldnet.att.n ]
Sweet is the sound of the pouring ra [ "Lavenda" <earth@comcen.com.au> ]
RE: Lyrics or Music? [ "Dalsh 327" <dalsh327@hotmail.com> ]
la la laaaaaaa! [ Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@ju ]
Missed a digest? Pick up a copy at the RDTRN archives:
http://www.torithoughts.org/rdtrn/archives
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[top]
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 06:39:13 -0800
From: "Dalsh 327" <dalsh327@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: RE: songs about verbiage
From: "Bethany Rose" <hejira@u-town.com>
>I mean,
c'mon. just quit the dilly dallying around and fucking sing. i've seen this
happen to a handful of artists besides Tori and Ani: once they've achieved
critical success and have a loyal fanbase that will salivate wherever they
go, they seem to forget a basic thing: how to write and perform a good song.
they're too into "experimenting". I'm not asking them to be Britney Spears,
but in my opinion, less is more. i mean, how conducive is it when you go to
hear Tori in concert and you can't even understand what she's saying?
You have to look under the "experimentation" to find the songs. My complaint
with Tori is that some of the venues she'll play truly suck the sound out of
her and the band. But too many fans will make excuses for the artist when
they start letting the toys and gadgets take over the sound. That was
people's biggest complaint with Radiohead to be sure, yet were being hyped
up big time when they went in that direction. She does use her voice as an
instrument, so the words that are coming out of her mouth might not always
be meant to be words that make sense... they just sound good set to music.
Which is why some of the best songs ever written have the stupidest lyrics,
or ones that make no sense whatsoever, yet the fans look for deep meaning in
them. "Stairway to Heaven" was total stream-of-consciousness.
If you're going to experiment, experiment all the way. Put a moritorium on
the old songs and just don't play them. Want to know how many old songs Neil
Young did when he toured with "Greenville"? One. When Pink Floyd did "The
Wall", they did no older songs. I'd rather the artist be picky about the
venues they choose than anything else.
***
>it just made me think how fucking trippy and amazing it might be if Tori
>did
an entirely instrumental album. I mean, how long has it been since we've
really heard or seen her fucking rip the piano apart like she used to? i'd
love to see her do that again.
I think that using the DVD technology to be able to isolate the piano and
vocal tracks would be a really cool thing for her to do. Hopefully she'll
also be rereleasing her catalog in Surround, including a DVD of all her
videos to date. Or put out a singles collection including the videos. I'm
kind of surprised she didn't do what Pearl Jam did, which is release limited
edition CDs of her tours though.
>so i guess my question(s) for discussion is: how do percieve most music
>that
you listen to? music first or lyrics first or both at the same time? does it
vary from artist to artists? if you hate the lyrics, but like the music, can
you look past that and still like the song (and vice versa)?
I think that most lyrics give some insight to the artist's views on life, or
are a complete work of fiction. Songs fit in different situations, as do
entire albums of material. What one person may think is classic, another
will hear like nails on a chalkboard. Some things sound better in a car, and
others sound better at home. And there are those albums that are best
listened to at 2AM on a dark road.
please reply. this list needs some life!
with that, she was gone.
-bethany
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[top]
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:16:32 -0500
From: "Beth Coulter" <betheqt@voicenet.com>
To: "RDT Right Now" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: Giving Public Thanks
I am a great believer in giving thanks when I have been gifted, and publicly
thanking is always a good thing. So I am hereby giving thanks to the Fates,
the Fairies and all other deities that have been guarding me and caring for
me. For the past six weeks, I've had problems with my tires. Slow leaks
and poor ride sort of problems. Last week, as I was driving to school, I
developed a severe shudder when I went past 65 MPH. So I didn't go over 60.
I put on a good 250 - 300 miles a week, driving fairly fast on rural roads
(even highways in Bucks Co. are rural roads). I just couldn't find the time
to take the car to a mechanic to check my tires, so I continued driving as
usual. This week I finally found free time and made an appointment for
Thursday. But on my way Tuesday morning, I stopped again to put some air in
my tire. It sounded really strange, and as I examined the tire, I noticed a
sticky substance outlining where the tread met the wall. It was separating.
I canceled all appointments, skipped school and got my car in on Wednesday
morning. Within an hour, my mechanic called to let me know that all four
tires were in that condition, and I was extremely lucky that they hadn't
blown weeks before. He got me a deal on tires, and had it repaired by
Thursday morning. He picked me up to drive me to get it, and once in his
office, he gave me a hug and told me it was a miracle nothing had happened.
He became very fatherly and gave me all sorts of Dutch Uncle advice about
getting the car in as soon as I sense a problem, not to be concerned about
cost. Amazing.
I don't know how those tires lasted. They are extremely abused by
Pennsylvania roads, and sometimes I drive faster than I should in a little
car. But the good energies decided to gift me once again and I must express
my gratitude. They even tried to warn me in my dreams, but I ignored the
signs. Thank you goodly spirits. I praise you.
Fairy Blessings,
Bethey
I'm OK when Everything's not OK
cause it's the Fairies Revenge they say
And I have always been a Fairy.
www.bethcoulter.com
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[top]
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:24:35 -0800
From: "ms. jessica parsons" <fullblownlife@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: re_1870
Brian said..
"Jessica: you put it out there, it's going to get commented on whether you
want it or not, especially when it's such a big issue."
i DID want it to get commented on...that's why in #1869 i was thanking all
of you...i really hope anyone did not misinterpret that. i incredibly
appreciate all of you for your support and advice.
jessica
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[top]
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:42:06 -0500
From: John Bragazzi <utown@worldnet.att.net>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply
I am, in fact, out of my office, because I'm home, writing this reply.
Being out of the office is a great idea, but it is sometimes difficult to
achieve. I used to write RDT posts at work sometimes, when I worked third
shift, but now they block all the webmail sites, so I couldn't even if I
still had the time.
Bethany said:
> just quit the dilly dallying around and fucking sing.
I agree, but I think this is less of a problem now than it used to be. I
think her singing has got tighter and more focused since her first tour
with the band. I'm thinking of her recent tours (even when playing solo),
versus the "Live in New York" video, for example. And "Strange Little
Girls" tightened her songwriting back up, too, to some extent, but the
problem now is that everything is so blanded out and mid-tempo. There's an
almost complete lack of attitude and sass.
> what I tend to gravitate to is the words first,
With me it's music first, often music second, and third, and usually words
much much later, if at all. I (almost) never read lyric sheets.
"Scarlet's Walk" may be the first Tori album where I read the lyrics, I was
looking for the answer to a specific question, but I don't remember now
what it was.
Which is one reason I still listen to Tori and seldom listen to Ani
anymore. Apart from the words, Ani is one repetitive songwriter
(especially rhythmically, but in other ways, too).
When I do pay attention to words, I still don't read them, because many
great lyrics look stupid on the page, and some words which look great on
the page are impossible to sing well.
As it happens, I used to write songs, but even then I preferred to write
music for other people's words. I did write a lot of lyrics, though, when
no other words were available. And, if any of those bands had ever made an
album, I would have argued for not having a lyric sheet.
Bob Dylan, TTBOMK, has never had a lyric sheet.
> it just made me think how fucking trippy and amazing it might be if Tori
> did an entirely instrumental album.
Absolutely. I may have suggested that here a year or two ago, but maybe
not. Either way, it's a great idea, and it will never happen. But it is a
great idea.
As B/4,
John
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[top]
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:17:54 -0500
From: John Bragazzi <utown@worldnet.att.net>
To: RDT Right Now <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: boo
Brian said:
> You can be a friend to her but when it comes to drugs, have nothing to do
> with her and point her to a professional.
Absolutely. No matter how good a friend you are, you can't cure addiction
any more than you could cure cancer. You can help and support them through
the treatment, but you can't be the treatment.
Jennifer said:
> I am out of the office until Friday October 30th.
I wonder if I should point out that Friday is October 31st, not the 30th.
Beth said:
> I also like songs in other languages,
> for somewhat similar reasons.
A lot of the meaning of songs is conveyed by the music, not the lyrics.
Way more than half, in my opinion, but we're used to words conveying
meaning (in prose, poetry, etc.), so we gravitate toward the words when we
think, "What does the song *mean*?" But you can take the same words and
put them to different music, and the whole (perceived) meaning will change.
But when you listen to music which doesn't have words, or where you can't
understand the words (or even where the words don't have any apparent
meaning), it's not like the music becomes meaningless.
Brian said:
> I'm about to say something here that next to dissing Tori, would be
> considered blasphemous.
Gaiman is no great prose stylist. I enjoyed "Neverwhere" a lot, but it
read like what it was, a film script converted after the fact into a novel.
I liked the Dirk Gently books a lot more, plus they are really funny. The
sequence in the insane asylum (I don't remember which book it's in off-
hand) had me on the floor. It was hilarious, but it was also really smart.
As B/4,
John
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[top]
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 20:51:04 +1100
From: "Lavenda" <earth@comcen.com.au>
To: "Tales of an Arty Turner" <rdtrn@torithoughts.org>
Subject: Sweet is the sound of the pouring rain
Bethany typed:
> so i guess my question(s) for discussion is: how do percieve most music
that
> you listen to? music first or lyrics first or both at the same time? does
it
> vary from artist to artists? if you hate the lyrics, but like the music,
can
> you look past that and still like the song (and vice versa)?
I've always found this interesting since first hearing someone suggest years
ago that when you first hear a song it tends to take a few listens for you
to pick up most of the lyrics. But I guess that really depends on your
familiarity with the artist, your impression of their previous songs and if
you are thus looking for anything in 'this' song. And I guess how/where
you're hearing it - the radio tends to be background so it wouldn't be any
wonder that we pick the music up first and lyrics register later. I think
also that because music is a more universal, primeval language it can bypass
the thought processes and get to our core.
With Tori in particular I used to read the lyric book before or as I was
listening to it for the first few times. But now I'm trying to get away from
that and just let the songs seep into me.
Beth typed:
>I think instrumental music is incredibly important; my imagination likes to
>run wild with those kinds of pieces. I also like songs in other languages,
>for somewhat similar reasons.
I second that. I quite like some 'classical' music, and soundtracks/scores
too. And songs in other languages... I think because you don't literally
understand the words you are getting more into the emotion of the piece.
There's also the small matter of rhythm... kwasa, polynesian drum dances
just get my hips moving :)
Hmm, I have been quiet. Other things doing. And it never ends, you just keep
piling things in the 'to do' or 'nice idea' basket, and some of them you run
with and some of them haunt you.
X
Lavs
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[top]
Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 09:03:06 -0800
From: "Dalsh 327" <dalsh327@hotmail.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: RE: Lyrics or Music?
The David Gilmour in concert is far better as is Roger's "In the Flesh" DVD.
"The Wall in Berlin" was not worth the money whatsoever. Van Morrison is
painful to listen to, and the special guests distracting (although "The
Trial" was kickass with Ute Lemper (who is THE Weill/Brecht singer) and Tim
Curry. And it's not Pink Floyd. The movie in Surround is pretty awesome
though. I also heard that there are plans to put the original movie they
shot during the original shows from 1980 out on DVD, because they are able
to clean up the footage. I'm also looking forward to "Pulse" coming out on
DVD, because they did "Dark Side of the Moon" all the way through.
From: "Beth Coulter" <betheqt@voicenet.com>
... I am getting "Tales..." because I get all of Tori's releases. But
mostly
I'm getting it because I just entered the 21st century and got a DVD player,
so "Bonus DVD" is a selling point to me now. But I am waiting for "Moody
Blues at Red Rocks" and "The Wall - Berlin" to arrive to really test out my
new toy. For right now, it plays my CD-R's much nicer than my old stereo.
;)
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[top]
Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 19:30:01 GMT
From: Cyndi S Crawford <cyndi.crawford@juno.com>
To: rdtrn@torithoughts.org
Subject: la la laaaaaaa!
howdy, everybody.
I'm so silent these days because I'm two quarters away from graduating from
the lovely Atlanta Art Institute.. so I'm kinda.. grounding myself from the
computer (well except to check my email and stuff like THAT).. yeah.
I also have a new car, tried to go as the female and human equivalent of
Sonic The Hedgehog for Halloween at school yesterday (well at least my hair
was blue even if it didn't stand up much at all....) and discovered the
beauty of that which is Ally McBeal, discovered that I love her so much
because I think I'm as neurotic as she is at times, plus I bought a
skateboard (I've the snowboarding bug and I thought that taking up
skateboarding would be a good way to get practice) and returned it to
Walmart all within 30 minutes last week and I'm sick and tired of taking
four hours out of my day every day commuting to school and back so I'm
gonna learn how to drive the entire way in instead of riding the fucking
MARTA and wasting precious time and I'm also writing a story based on a
dream that I had FOREVER AGO... *GASP!* and that pretty much sums it up for
now, wouldn't you think? *passes out*
so, having updated you and become lightheaded in the process, I think it's
time I said: ON WITH THE REPLIES!
everybody who's had a birthday in between my infrequent (somebody shoot me,
I'm turning into a lurker! *shriek!*) postings: I hope you had a
FANTABULOUS birthday.
also.. (I can't remember if I did this already or not....) everyone who
sent me birthday wishes: thank you, thank you. *SMOOOOOOOOOCH!*
everyone seems to have something to say about the new version of Mary but
me.. and that's because unless it's released as a music video, I'm not
gonna listen to it until the album comes out and is bought by me.
but that doesn't make your comments any less interesting. it makes me more
curious and more curious, so KEEP IT UP.
Bethey: so glad to hear the Peace Party went well. :D
Bethany said: "maybe big record labels DO suck. gee."
yes, and maybe Tori should dump the major labels altogether and go
indie.. d'ya think it'd work? I'd like to see her do that if it means more
promotion--HER WAY.
Bethany then asked (which is why I'm finally replying): "how do percieve
most music that
you listen to? music first or lyrics first or both at the same time? does it
vary from artist to artists? if you hate the lyrics, but like the music, can
you look past that and still like the song (and vice versa)?"
it's always the music first for me. ALWAYS. but then that's what I
hear more than anything. it's what I can hear without struggling to
comprehend or without being like "okayyyy.. I'm gonna go search for the
lyrics to this one." even to this day I struggle to understand and then
know all of the words to some of my favorite songs. but I blame that on
being hearing impaired. :D I think that's why I'm a "music first". person..
but if it's also a music video that I'm watching.. it's usually what I'm
seeing along with the music that makes me decide if I like a song or not..
like if it's a really good R&B or rap song but the singer/rapper is shoving
his zirconium encrusted stainless steel jewelry into the camera, I'm gonna
be searching for the remote control.. but in those situations.. if I REALLY
really like the song, I'm forgiving enough to actually enjoy it without
being embarrassed when I hear it on the radio.
Jessica expressed indifference/curiosity over whether to buy the Tales Of A
Librarian CD or not.. Jessica: just start a launch.com account when the
album comes out and toggle the album (and Tori) at 100 so that you can hear
it and see if you like it. if you like it, buy it. if you don't like it,
don't. simple as that. I love launch.com radio. *dances around*
Beth said in the lyrics/music debate: "I have a friend who is synaesthetic
- that is, he sees shapes and patterns and colors in his mind when he
listens to music. Because music is a visual medium for him, he does not
often notice lyrics -- words and vocals become another instrument."
that is interesting. I always picture things in my head when I listen
to music too. maybe not like THAT, but I ALWAYS have (for example) ideas
for a music video enter my head. especially when I hear a song for the
FIRST TIME.
says the Coops man: "I just finished reading Neil Gaiman's "American Gods"
and quite frankly, it bored me. I didn't even find it to be all that
original."
intriguing.. I thought it was a great read. very descriptive and I had
my nose stuck in it the entire week I spent reading it. (woulda been less
than a week if I'd not been busy with school and sleep. bleah.) what
exactly turned you off? I found it VERY interesting, especially the stuff
about the old gods that I'd never even heard about until I read the novel.
so on that note, happy halloween/Samhain. :D wheeeeeee! (gonads and strife,
gonads and strife... yeah.)
Sincerely, Cyndi S. Crawford
"I know we're dying / and there's no sign of a parachute / we scream in
cathedrals / why can't it be beautiful / why does there gotta be a
sacrifice?" -- Tori Amos
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